RWB Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 and..."Assume that you'll have to pay current prices." This was on another site, but it's an interesting two part thought. Let's assume you pay in time-relevant money; and then that you have to pay in today's prices. Lots of choices. What can members come up with. (PS: NNP has a lot of auction catalogues available to browse for free.) GoldFinger1969 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldFinger1969 Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 (edited) On 2/11/2022 at 9:21 PM, RWB said: and..."Assume that you'll have to pay current prices." This was on another site, but it's an interesting two part thought. Let's assume you pay in time-relevant money; and then that you have to pay in today's prices. Lots of choices. What can members come up with. (PS: NNP has a lot of auction catalogues available to browse for free.) I'm not sure I understand. Going BACK in time and paying the then-prices makes sense. If I have to pay TODAY'S prices, that defeats the purpose, right ? I would probably go back in time to the 1930's or 1940's and go to one of the Abe Kossoff or Max Mehl auctions that featured some valuable Saints going for < $1,000. I might even go to the actor Adolphe Menjou's acutions, alive or deceased, and pick up some of the Superb Gem MCMVII High Reliefs. I would stay away from the Eliasburg Auction, even though down from the peak in PM prices from 1979-80, still a huge increase from the prices he paid decades earlier. Edited February 12 by GoldFinger1969 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woods020 Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 Farouk auction followed closely by Eliasberg auctions. I would truly have liked to have just been able to view Eliasberg’s collection intact. Alex in PA. and GoldFinger1969 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldFinger1969 Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 On 2/11/2022 at 11:44 PM, Woods020 said: Farouk auction Good one, I mentioned it another thread but forgot to list that in this one. You could have bought lots of nice coins but NOT the 1933 Saint since the Treasury asked them to yank it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWB Posted February 12 Author Share Posted February 12 What about some of the huge 19th century auctions -- even the ones that 'went cheap' like Linderman's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VKurtB Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 I’d go to the two non-gold Eliasberg auctions. I really have a bad attitude about gold generally. I’m okay with platinum and palladium though. I already own those two Eliasberg catalogs in hard cover autographed. Alex in PA. and GoldFinger1969 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member: Seasoned Veteran DWLange Posted February 12 Member: Seasoned Veteran Share Posted February 12 I'm pretty sure the posted question pertained to the opportunity to buy certain items rather than their values now or then. zadok and GoldFinger1969 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmarguli Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 None. If I have to pay current prices, I can't think of any coin that I want that is both locked away and that I could afford today. GoldFinger1969 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Bob Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 Although there was not much in the auction that I could afford at today's prices, I would love the chance to go back in time and view the Buddy Ebsen collection. He had some amazing coins - quite a few that were finest known examples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zadok Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 On 2/11/2022 at 11:44 PM, Woods020 said: Farouk auction followed closely by Eliasberg auctions. I would truly have liked to have just been able to view Eliasberg’s collection intact. ...went n did that....some amazing some disappointing...... Woods020 and GoldFinger1969 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoghead515 Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 Dont know if any were auctioned but would love to go back and purchase some of the pattern pieces in the 1700s when they were trying to establish a mint. I really like these three. Walkerfan and GoldFinger1969 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woods020 Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 On 2/12/2022 at 6:06 PM, zadok said: ...went n did that....some amazing some disappointing...... Well it's a memory you will never forget. Amazing part of numismatic history. GoldFinger1969 and Hoghead515 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldFinger1969 Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 On 2/12/2022 at 3:30 PM, VKurtB said: I’d go to the two non-gold Eliasberg auctions. I really have a bad attitude about gold generally. I’m okay with platinum and palladium though. I already own those two Eliasberg catalogs in hard cover autographed. Wow, good job getting Mr. Eliasberg to autograph it. Considering his state after the auction, that's a tough one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post zadok Posted February 13 Popular Post Share Posted February 13 On 2/12/2022 at 11:21 PM, Woods020 said: Well it's a memory you will never forget. Amazing part of numismatic history. ... ive seen so many auction/collections they all seem to run together, its often diff to keep them straight...i had a private viewing of the eliasberg collection n no rush in looking at the coins, to be honest i remember the disappointing coins more than the amazing coins, he was more of a hole filler than a highest graded collector, the best portions of his collection were the sections where he bought other collections en bloc n added to his collection, i bought a few coins from his collection but they r not the brightest stars in my collection...the garrett n norweb collections were more impressive in quality, specifically the garrett collection where quality was paramount...the few norweb coins i possess r more my favorites than my eliasberg coins...but as u say its still a part of my sharing numismatic history....part of what makes the hobby interesting.... GoldFinger1969, Woods020 and Hoghead515 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zadok Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 On 2/12/2022 at 11:22 PM, GoldFinger1969 said: Wow, good job getting Mr. Eliasberg to autograph it. Considering his state after the auction, that's a tough one. ...i think v. kurt means q. david n not louis e........just to keep his p's n q's straight.... GoldFinger1969 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldFinger1969 Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 (edited) The Norweb 1908-S was David Akers FAVORITE Saint of them all. I've never seen these kinds of colors, I don't know if it is the lighting or what. But the colors are out of this world and I believe you can make a case that this coin could be an MS-68. Edited February 13 by GoldFinger1969 Walkerfan and Fenntucky Mike 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VKurtB Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 On 2/12/2022 at 3:14 PM, gmarguli said: None. If I have to pay current prices, I can't think of any coin that I want that is both locked away and that I could afford today. Sadly, true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VKurtB Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 (edited) On 2/13/2022 at 6:21 AM, zadok said: ...i think v. kurt means q. david n not louis e........just to keep his p's n q's straight.... Absolutely. Both were autographed by QDB, as was his book about Eliasberg, “King of Coins”. The three are a matched set. It’s good I don’t have the gold coin catalog. I simply dislike nearly EVERYTHING about the history of gold. Edited February 13 by VKurtB GoldFinger1969 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VKurtB Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 (edited) On 2/12/2022 at 3:10 PM, DWLange said: I'm pretty sure the posted question pertained to the opportunity to buy certain items rather than their values now or then. My answer is for the experience of an event of such magnitude, not to buy squat. I spent four days last month at Orlando F.U.N. and didn’t buy even one coin. Heck, I didn’t even drop off coins at NGC. Edited February 13 by VKurtB GoldFinger1969 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldFinger1969 Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 On 2/12/2022 at 4:14 PM, gmarguli said: None. If I have to pay current prices, I can't think of any coin that I want that is both locked away and that I could afford today. I though Roger also said above that "time relevant" -- which I took to mean then-current prices -- also were in play. Kind of defeats the purpose to have to pay current prices if you go back in time to an auction. You'd be overpaying bigtime if you went back in time but paid today's prices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWB Posted February 14 Author Share Posted February 14 On 2/13/2022 at 4:42 PM, GoldFinger1969 said: I though Roger also said above that "time relevant" -- which I took to mean then-current prices -- also were in play. Kind of defeats the purpose to have to pay current prices if you go back in time to an auction. You'd be overpaying bigtime if you went back in time but paid today's prices. You can approach Mr. Eureka's question from the point of paying contemporary prices, or modern prices. I mentioned Linderman's family sale because the prices were very low. GoldFinger1969 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldFinger1969 Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 On thing I forgot....even if you went back in time but had to pay CURRENT prices...you could still make out like a bandit because many of these auctions were pre-TPG. As a result, many of the coins were either misgraded or deliberately UNDERGRADED so as to be priced to sell. The 1920-S Saint at the Eliasberg '82 auction comes to mind. I believe it was listed as "Choice Uncirculated" or something akin to MS-63 and when it got sent to the TPGs a few years later it came back MS-66. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldFinger1969 Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 I just checked the invaluable price matrix in Roger's book.....in 1982, the 1920-S sold for about $15,000 - $17,000 in MS-63 and low-$30,000 range for MS-65. So you have to figure a legit MS-66 would be worth $50,000 at least. Quite possibly more as the rarity of Superb Gems was probably well known even though the TPGs were still a few years away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VKurtB Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 On 2/23/2022 at 11:33 AM, GoldFinger1969 said: I just checked the invaluable price matrix in Roger's book.....in 1982, the 1920-S sold for about $15,000 - $17,000 in MS-63 and low-$30,000 range for MS-65. So you have to figure a legit MS-66 would be worth $50,000 at least. Quite possibly more as the rarity of Superb Gems was probably well known even though the TPGs were still a few years away. Did MS66 even exist in 1982? Serious question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldFinger1969 Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 (edited) On 2/24/2022 at 1:25 AM, VKurtB said: Did MS66 even exist in 1982? Serious question. I don't think so. The vets here can chime in. But I know from Akers/Duckor that MS-63 was called "Choice Uncirculated" and MS-65 was called "Gem Uncirculated" and MS-67 was "Superb Gem." Something like that. The CU coin they bought at Eliasberg '82 was ultimately graded MS-66. I can post the story if you want in the Saints thread(s). Edited February 24 by GoldFinger1969 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VKurtB Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 On 2/24/2022 at 1:10 AM, GoldFinger1969 said: I don't think so. The vets here can chime in. But I know from Akers/Duckor that MS-63 was called "Choice Uncirculated" and MS-65 was called "Gem Uncirculated" and Ms-67 was "Superb Gem." Something like that. The CU coin they bought at Eliasberg '82 was ultimately graded MS-66. I can post the story if you want in the Saints thread(s). Oh, “ultimately graded”. As in “later”. Makes infinite sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldFinger1969 Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 (edited) On 2/24/2022 at 2:12 AM, VKurtB said: Oh, “ultimately graded”. As in “later”. Makes infinite sense. The point was.....aided by the lack of number grades, and given that this was pre-TPGs (1982), and probably because they wanted to price it to sell.....it was way "undergraded" however they classified it (which I am pretty sure was Choice Uncirculated). When it was sent to the TPGs a few years later, it got an MS-66. I believe it is in the Top 2 Pop today for 1920-S. Edited February 24 by GoldFinger1969 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VKurtB Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 On 2/24/2022 at 1:14 AM, GoldFinger1969 said: The point was.....aided by the lack of number grades, and given that this was pre-TPGs (1982), and probably because they wanted to price it to sell.....it was way "undergraded" however they classified it (which I am pretty sure was Choice Uncirculated). When it was sent to the TPGs a few years later, it got an MS-66. I believe it is in the Top 2 Pop today for 1920-S. Some people count that as grade inflation. I do not. It’s “improved differentiation”. GoldFinger1969 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoldFinger1969 Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 On 2/24/2022 at 2:17 AM, VKurtB said: Some people count that as grade inflation. I do not. It’s “improved differentiation”. Grading was all over the map pre-TPGs. I'm not sure who did the grading for Eliasberg '82 -- Bowers ? -- but either he graded very conservatively...OR....he knew it should probably be a Gem Uncirculated (MS-65) but the estate/auctioner told him to knock it down a bit. It was a recession in 1982....stock market was in the toilet....they might have thought there wasn't a market for "pricey" coins at that level. Dunno.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VKurtB Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 On 2/24/2022 at 1:19 AM, GoldFinger1969 said: Grading was all over the map pre-TPGs. I'm not sure who did the grading for Eliasberg '82 -- Bowers ? -- but either he graded very conservatively...OR....he knew it should probably be a Gem Uncirculated (MS-65) but the estate/auctioner told him to knock it down a bit. It was a recession in 1982....stock market was in the toilet....they might have thought there wasn't a market for "pricey" coins at that level. Dunno.......... By the time the second and third Eliasberg sales happened, ALL coins had a TPGS grade. Big difference. It is claimed many got an “Eliasberg bump” in their grade. I’m inclined to agree. GoldFinger1969 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
