eBay sales 0

[Deiter]

Okay guys, here’s a question that should provoke some interesting comments… 

As a newbie can someone please explain to me the eBay phenomenon? 
aka- literally two blurry photos taken with some kind of filter I can’t even begin to describe for thousands of dollars? 
 

I understand key dates and low mint dates as the two highly sought after in the attached picture… but isn’t it risky to bid thousands on a coin you can’t first hold in your hand ( or even see clearly for that matter?) 

Do people just have this kind of cash to blow on a gamble or does it make sense ( let’s pretend we are the high bidder of both of these auctions, the 1884s & the 1892 cc) and I’m just missing something here? 
 

would you guys say these winning bids got a ms 55 to 58 coin at NGC or is there a better chance Megan Fox invites me over for a late night drink? 

[Coinbuf]

Yes some people are gamblers, although the way ebay works now it is not that much of a gamble.   As a buyer you can always return anything, even months later and even if the seller states that he has a no return policy.    And then you also have the buyers that just don't know what they are bidding on, uninformed possibly elderly individuals that think the sellers are legit and above board.   Very often on forums like this you see folks posting proudly the gems they just  bought only to find out they have been taken.

It is this last group that these sellers want to find because those buyers are unlikely to do a SNAD, they (or their heirs) will be stuck with the polished damaged junk at inflated prices. Because the sellers are ripping people off for a lot of money they just consider the sales to gamblers that do get returned as the cost of doing business.

[Deiter]

That makes enough sense for me. Thank you Coinbuf! 

[Mr.Bill347]

Deiter, welcome to the forum you have a very valid question. There are many inherent risks associated with buying coins online fro EBay or a lot of other sites. Sometimes you just have to trust the sellers description, If , the seller has a larger number of sales and a high number of positives and allows returns, then you are pretty safe. I don’t buy a lot of pricey stuff but I have purchased quite a number of excellent  coins on EBay and you can mark favored sellers that you have been lucky with. There are no guarantees in life, as you know, and I’ve had to return a few along the way. One coin lately was a 1921 S Morgan showed nice pictures, obviously shot in the best angles as to minimize damage. The coin had a big fat fingerprint on the obverse. I returned thus one for a refund no questions asked. I don’t think I would ever be tempted to buy an expensive version of a Morgan in this manner. I have purchased many graded coins as well and as long as the cert number checks out and the price is in range with the NGC price guide, it is safe to buy, again from an experienced reputable dealer. Yes, I’ve made mistakes but we all do. Stay away from Etsy and Never Ever buy a coin on Faceplant. GC,  Heritage, and Modern Coin mart are good 👍 

sorry for the long post and again welcome!

[VKurtB]

As usual, I’m going to take the opposite view. I VERY seldom buy from eBay at all. When I do, it is from someone I have met in person and with whom I have a long-standing trust. 

[gmarguli]

The average person is not very intelligent. Statistically, half the world is dumber than that average person. 

Lots of people will bid thousands of dollars on a coin when they think they are smarter than others. I bet few of these are returned. The buyers do zero research to see if the seller potentially knows what they are doing. This seller is a full time coin dealer who advertises as being a PCGS, NGC, CAC dealer. Why isn't this coin certified and selling for multiples of what it will sell for raw? They have 162 feedback revisions on eBay. That's 162 times a negative or neutral feedback was removed. 

My favorite wording from their auctions: IF YOU CHOOSE TO SEND AN ITEM TO A THIRD PARTY GRADING SERVICE YOU FORFEIT THE RIGHT TO RETURN THE ITEM FOR A REFUND.

 

[124Spider]

On 10/24/2021 at 5:32 AM, Mr.Bill347 said:

Stay away from Etsy

When I'm searching for where I might buy a particular coin, the search engine always puts up a bunch of Etsy listings (rarely for the coin I'm looking for).  I'm gobsmacked by the prices people are asking for uninteresting coins, often making up out of thin air why it's a "rare" coin.  I'm talking tens of thousands of dollars.

I understand the $10 glass of lemonade story (kids selling lemonade for $10 a glass; guy says, "That's pretty expensive!" The kids answer "Yes, but we only have to sell one....").  But is anyone stupid enough to pay real money for a nothing coin?

[Coinbuf]

On 10/24/2021 at 1:47 PM, 124Spider said:

But is anyone stupid enough to pay real money for a nothing coin?

More often than you might think, and certainly more often than we all wish for.

[Deiter]

On 10/24/2021 at 4:47 PM, 124Spider said:

But is anyone stupid enough to pay real money for a nothing coin

I think my screenshot of the selling prices of the coins in my photos gives us the definitive answer to this one!

I appreciate your thoughts especially @gmarguli. Anybody revising that many feedback reviews has something to hide, or protect rather… I guess it’s a damn good business selling raw coins “at a discount” to slabbed prices. These guys obviously are pro’s and would know enough to send in a coin they felt would grade out instead of offering an opportunity to random bidders on eBay. 
 

I would be curious to get your take ( anyone’s take) on a particular seller on eBay called “ CanyonCity_coin”…
 

Admittedly,  I have purchased some of their coins. They claim to have access to full (unopened)bank  bags of Morgan’s, have 100% positive feedback, and offer returns. 
 

they do A LOT of volume and often rare mint issues come up for auction. 
 

my question is… what are they doing to their coins? They all have a very distinctive “look” and you can see that same “ look” on some of the slabbed coins they also offer. 
 

Is there any way possible that they are dipping the coins in a way that gives them natural luster and cartwheel effect? Is there any chance they would unselfishly offer up a raw 1884s ms state Morgan to the highest bidder or is this the same game that they “know” they coin will grade lower/get a details grade/ be worth less in reality  than what they are taking in from the auction selling it raw? 
 

here are a few pics of their listings to give a visual for anyone that doesn’t use eBay… 

 

 

[VKurtB]

On 10/24/2021 at 1:29 PM, gmarguli said:

The average person is not very intelligent. Statistically, half the world is dumber than that average person. 

Lots of people will bid thousands of dollars on a coin when they think they are smarter than others. I bet few of these are returned. The buyers do zero research to see if the seller potentially knows what they are doing. This seller is a full time coin dealer who advertises as being a PCGS, NGC, CAC dealer. Why isn't this coin certified and selling for multiples of what it will sell for raw? They have 162 feedback revisions on eBay. That's 162 times a negative or neutral feedback was removed. 

My favorite wording from their auctions: IF YOU CHOOSE TO SEND AN ITEM TO A THIRD PARTY GRADING SERVICE YOU FORFEIT THE RIGHT TO RETURN THE ITEM FOR A REFUND.

 

Intelligence and wealth are independent variables. Some of the stupidest people are very wealthy. And many of the wealthy are “bat feces crazy” too.

[Coinbuf]

On 10/25/2021 at 7:06 AM, Deiter said:

I would be curious to get your take ( anyone’s take) on a particular seller on eBay called “ CanyonCity_coin”…

Admittedly,  I have purchased some of their coins. They claim to have access to full (unopened)bank  bags of Morgan’s, have 100% positive feedback, and offer returns. 

They have been discussed, I forget if that was here or on another coin forum; but the consensus was not good. 

[Alex in PA.]

On 10/24/2021 at 2:29 PM, gmarguli said:

The average person is not very intelligent. Statistically, half the world is dumber than that average person. 

[Mohawk]

On 10/25/2021 at 1:32 PM, Coinbuf said:

They have been discussed, I forget if that was here or on another coin forum; but the consensus was not good. 

I saw that, too, and I cannot remember where the discussion was.  But you're right....the consensus was not good.  I'd recommend avoiding them.

[Alex in PA.]

On 10/25/2021 at 1:32 PM, Coinbuf said:

forget if that was here or on another coin forum; but the consensus was not good. 

It was on the Water Cooler and three people had complaints.    

Corrected - Posted by error.  I could have sworn it was 'Bacon Boy' again?

Edited October 25, 2021 by Alex in PA.

[Mohawk]

On 10/25/2021 at 1:54 PM, Alex in PA. said:

It was on the Water Cooler and three people had complaints.  However, these three purchased from Canyon City and left Positives bringing the total to thousands of Positives and NO Negatives.  Go figure.  Might ask Deiter why he never left a Negative.    

I saw a different discussion then.  And I cannot remember where it was.....it was likely another forum I belonged to a while back.

Edited October 25, 2021 by Mohawk

[Alex in PA.]

On 10/25/2021 at 2:01 PM, Mohawk said:

.it was likely another forum

You'll find it in the Water Cooler

[Mohawk]

On 10/25/2021 at 2:06 PM, Alex in PA. said:

You'll find it in the Water Cooler

Thanks Alex.  I did find that one by searching for it, but that wasn't the discussion I was referring to.  The one I was referring to was much more negative than that, but I think it must have been in another forum because I couldn't find it searching the NGC boards.

[Alex in PA.]

On 10/25/2021 at 2:08 PM, Mohawk said:

I did find that one by searching for it

Maybe Coin Talk.  I remember one on them over on PCGS Board.

[Mohawk]

On 10/25/2021 at 2:16 PM, Alex in PA. said:

Maybe Coin Talk.  I remember one on them over on PCGS Board.

Coin Talk could have been it actually.  I'm not sure.  I don't belong to the PCGS Board, so I know I didn't see it there.

[Alex in PA.]

"Going to have to leave NGC behind" was the topic.  Found nothing on ATS or CT.

[Mohawk]

On 10/25/2021 at 2:24 PM, Alex in PA. said:

"Going to have to leave NGC behind" was the topic.  Found nothing on ATS or CT.

Well, then, I'm completely stumped.  This was a long time ago though, so I don't know....maybe I'm hallucinating it.  But seriously, it could have been an actual face to face discussion I had in a coin shop as well.....Things have been crazy busy in my life right now and it's all running together.....I need to shut up unless I can cite sources, which I will do.  Please disregard my comments on this topic.  

Edited October 25, 2021 by Mohawk

[Deiter]

On 10/25/2021 at 1:54 PM, Alex in PA. said:

Might ask Deiter why he never left a Negative.    

No negative comments from me because the coins I’ve purchased look great to my amateur eyes! I probably know just enough to be dangerous (to myself) at this stage but the coins I received from them look great in my estimation. I will pull them out and post some pics here and let a jury of my new friends decide. Give me a day and I’ll post them here

[Alex in PA.]

On 10/25/2021 at 2:25 PM, Mohawk said:

This was a long time ago though, so I don't know..

July 12 according to the records.  I forgot all about it.

[Alex in PA.]

On 10/25/2021 at 3:13 PM, Deiter said:

No negative comments from me

My apologies.  I mistook you for another individual.  It was the reference that threw me off.  Again, apologies and I will correct that.

Edited October 25, 2021 by Alex in PA.

[Deiter]

but back to my original point, intuitively I feel they are doing SOMETHING to their coins, I just cant figure out what. 

[124Spider]

On 10/25/2021 at 12:31 PM, Deiter said:

but back to my original point, intuitively I feel they are doing SOMETHING to their coins, I just cant figure out what. 

I'm no expert, but that doesn't prevent me from having an opinion based on collecting Morgan dollars.

1. It is unlikely that an obscure "dealer" would suddenly come upon a 139-year old unopened bag of Morgan dollars.
2. That coin looks artificially shiny; either the photo was processed, or the coin has been polished.  I don't believe that it is a proof.
3.  There are a lot of bag marks on that coin, so I doubt it has been polished.
4.  There were more than 600,000 1882-CC Morgan dollars in the GSA hoard.  They are not rare. 
5.  That coin appears to me to be no better than MS63, and probably MS62.  
6.  Paying over $500 for such a coin, based only on eBay hype and dubious photos, is not intelligent.

Mark

Edited October 25, 2021 by 124Spider

[Alex in PA.]

* 1882 CC * Superb Gem BU MS Morgan Silver Dollar 8 FRESH FROM SEALED BANK BAG       But who's  bank?  That coin looks 'Dipped' to me.  Here is an 1882 CC PCGS MS 66 that was also 'Diped'.  Can't prove it beyond a reasonable doubt but............if a member says it was I believe him.

Edited October 25, 2021 by Alex in PA.

[Jblindy]

I have seen their auctions and watched a few of them when I first began my adventure. I asked them if they would send me pictures of a toned coin they were offering. Just a few pictures without all the special lighting effects and filters they obviously use. They never responded. They’re just as bad with their picture doctoring as the seller “auction king” or whatever their name is. “WOW!! SUPREME STATE BU*** RARE GEM!!  BRILLIANT WHITE!!  GORGEOUS!!”  Give me a break. 🙄 I just scroll right on by. They do have a good photographer though. 

[Alex in PA.]

Canyon City Coin - 1,682 Positives and 0 Neutrals and 0 Negatives and we have a 'Newbie' Expert to guide us from purchasing from them.  Who should we buy from then - 'The Dockter'?

[Fenntucky Mike]

I have not done business with CCC but I would not buy from any online seller with images like that. 

This link was in the "Going to have to leave NGC behind" thread, it's from ATS and is about individual's experiences with CCC.

https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1059839/an-awful-lot-of-original-roll-coins-from-this-seller#latest