US Mint Proofs Grade 0

[Jack Corso]

When cataloging my collection, is it safe to say that proof coins acquired from the US Mint, without being professionally graded, be considered a PF70 until officially graded or Catalog them as a PF69?

 

Edited August 20, 2021 by Jack Corso
Additional info

[J P M]

I think it depends on the coin, I have some MS coins AU and VF and G and they have been graded by myself and other collectors not a TPG service. I have old proof coins in sets that are hazy so they are not PF70 unless they can be restored . I have a few proof coins in boxes that I would have to say look 70 but I can't call them that because they are not really graded buy a TPG service. I have slab coins that I think are graded to high and I have some that I think are graded to low. Grading a coin is more a opinion by someone who has experience and then it is still only one opinion.  Just my opinion on the whole grading thing.

[Walter Holmes]

PF70 is not a guaranty for any proof from any mint. There may be minor or slight imperfections  on the coin that would not make it qualify as a PF70 . It should be gem quality so I usually look for them to be in  the range of PF65 to PF70

[Mohawk]

On 8/20/2021 at 7:06 AM, Jack Corso said:

When cataloging my collection, is it safe to say that proof coins acquired from the US Mint, without being professionally graded, be considered a PF70 until officially graded or Catalog them as a PF69?

 

Not at all.  A PF 70 only exists if a reputable grading service has certified a coin as such.  Until then, a coin is simply raw and could be any of a range of grades, but not a 70.  Modern proofs seem to range from PF 65 to PF 70, usually.  But until you have an NGC or PCGS label that says PF 70, you don't have one.

Edited August 20, 2021 by Mohawk

[gmarguli]

On 8/20/2021 at 11:16 AM, Mohawk said:

Not at all.  A PF 70 only exists if a reputable grading service has certified a coin as such.  Until then, a coin is simply raw and could be any of a range of grades, but not a 70.  Modern proofs seem to range from PF 65 to PF 70, usually.  But until you have an NGC or PCGS label that says PF 70, you don't have one.

  That's an absolutely horrifying way of looking at things. You're making the TPG the sole arbiter of the grade. By your reasoning, no coin has a grade until a TPG has given it one.

The condition of the coin doesn't change just because someone paid a TPG for an opinion. Shockingly enough, many people can grade as well as or better than the TPG graders. 

[JT2]

WHile 90% of the mofern proof and mints sets may be eligible for these lofty grades anything before 1990 could be iffy getting a 69 or a 70.   so i wouldnt go there!!!  look at your coins and any and i mean anything looks a skew and you are down to the 68 level ..........

[Coinbuf]

On 8/20/2021 at 4:06 AM, Jack Corso said:

When cataloging my collection, is it safe to say that proof coins acquired from the US Mint, without being professionally graded, be considered a PF70 until officially graded or Catalog them as a PF69?

 

Neither, no coin is ever automatically deemed PF70 or PF69 just because it is a proof.   You can do whatever suits you in terms of how you catalog your coins, if to you the coins meet your definition of a PF70 then by all means feel free to call them that.   But with the understanding that you may be the only one that would grade them that way.    

[Mohawk]

On 8/20/2021 at 3:25 PM, gmarguli said:

  That's an absolutely horrifying way of looking at things. You're making the TPG the sole arbiter of the grade. By your reasoning, no coin has a grade until a TPG has given it one.

The condition of the coin doesn't change just because someone paid a TPG for an opinion. Shockingly enough, many people can grade as well as or better than the TPG graders. 

Fair enough, but I only meant that in terms of 70 graded moderns and market acceptance of 70 grades.  If the question was involving Morgan Dollars in MS 68 or something of that nature, my answer would have been entirely different and more in line with how you're thinking about things.  My answer applies solely to the whole 70 grade situation and no other coin grading situation.  No one would buy a modern coin graded PF or MS 70 at the kind of premium a PF or MS 70 brings without it being certified as such by NGC or PCGS.  I probably should have been more clear about that and I do apologize for my lack of clarity.

Edited August 20, 2021 by Mohawk

[Jack Corso]

Thanks for all the responses!

[RWB]

On 8/20/2021 at 7:06 AM, Jack Corso said:

When cataloging my collection, is it safe to say that proof coins acquired from the US Mint, without being professionally graded, be considered a PF70 until officially graded or Catalog them as a PF69?

 

No. State what they are, no more, no less.

[J P M]

On 8/20/2021 at 5:09 PM, Mohawk said:

Fair enough, but I only meant that in terms of 70 graded moderns and market acceptance of 70 grades.  If the question was involving Morgan Dollars in MS 68 or something of that nature, my answer would have been entirely different and more in line with how you're thinking about things.  My answer applies solely to the whole 70 grade situation and no other coin grading situation.  No one would buy a modern coin graded PF or MS 70 at the kind of premium a PF or MS 70 brings without it being certified as such by NGC or PCGS.  I probably should have been more clear about that and I do apologize for my lack of clarity.

Here's a good deal ,  I got this price in a E-Mail from a coin place I have used in the past.... Sorry not this time.....NGC Graded Proof 70 Silver Eagles
Limited Sale Price of $239.99  

[Fenntucky Mike]

On 8/21/2021 at 1:50 PM, J P Mashoke said:

.NGC Graded Proof 70 Silver Eagles
Limited Sale Price of $239.99  

I'll wait. 

[Jason Abshier]

Just proof for raw coin material … 

little known dirty secret PF69 and PF70 is only a market grade if the TPG in a good mood that day they’ll give ya 70 … under 5x loupe (which grading company claims they use there no difference between 69 and 70) not even with 30x-40x loupe have I noticed any difference between a “spotless” “blemish free” 69 and 70 side by side (unless it got an ugly milk spot then Its either 68-69 grade which is understandable) so in theory the mint has reach perfection when it comes to proof striking (but not saying they are all perfect regarding milk spots, and so on … but strike quality wise yes) it don’t get any better than that … anyone wants argue there is a difference I’m glad you see it ,and it helps you sleep better at night knowing you have super power vision equal to 100X power loupe you can see that tiny tiny tiny tiny tiny little speck of die blemish 

[Jason Abshier]

On another note biggest difference between a 69 and 70 ? Is when you go to buy a 69 is more forgiving leaves some cash in your wallet to buy other coins … where as 70 is a greedy SOB! That will make your wallet so thin leaving you standing there with 1 coin to show for like you’re Gollum in lord of the rings rubbing the slab whispering to yourself “my precious” ! 
 

But in the end whatever helps you sleep better at night , your money -your collection do as you please 

Edited August 21, 2021 by Jason Abshier

[James Zyskowski]

My new Gollum. It’s so pretty all I did was upgrade to a clamshell. 70-69 mint fresh arrived today. It speaks for itself. I grade it part of my collection don’t need a number…. But I hear you I’m often pulled in by the number 🤓

[Jason Abshier]

On 8/21/2021 at 5:13 PM, James Zyskowski said:

My new Gollum. It’s so pretty all I did was upgrade to a clamshell. 70-69 mint fresh arrived today. It speaks for itself. I grade it part of my collection don’t need a number…. But I hear you I’m often pulled in by the number 🤓

@James ZyskowskiI really like the eagle on reverse of this proof I might buy one later on in secondary market someday just to have and look at . The old Type 1 eagle was kinda boring to look at I’m glad they gotten rid of old eagle style reverse on ASE … I always loved the eagles on reverse of walking liberty half dollar and eagle landing on reverse of Ike dollars very detailed what an eagle supposed to look like (hand downs both those coins had best engravers doing the eagle’s detail . As well as the new ASE type 2 gets 2 thumbs up by me for our beloved eagles) … the old ASE had ugly eagle on back just like Morgan dollars always though the eagle on back of Morgan was a mediocre so-so and ugly on Morgan dollars I was never to thrilled to collect Morgan dollars although my grandfather and my father used to collect a lot of them back in the days… Peace dollars eagles are okay nothing exciting about peace dollars 

[Mohawk]

On 8/21/2021 at 1:50 PM, J P Mashoke said:

Here's a good deal ,  I got this price in a E-Mail from a coin place I have used in the past.... Sorry not this time.....NGC Graded Proof 70 Silver Eagles
Limited Sale Price of $239.99  

That's insane!!! I would NEVER spend that on a Silver Eagle (which probably means next to nothing because I only collect Roman coins), but it's ridiculous!!

[James Zyskowski]

Jason Your absolutely correct. WLH and the Eagle Landing Ike’s are awesome. I’m growing into this new design. I’ll know a lot better when I see the reverse proof coming up.  🤓🙀

Edited August 22, 2021 by James Zyskowski

[Jason Abshier]

@James Zyskowski When it comes to American coinage nobody makes the eagle more prouder than Americans! I really dig a well engrave and detailed eagle on American coinage such as flying eagle or landing eagle 🦅 

[Jason Abshier]

On 8/21/2021 at 8:22 PM, Mohawk said:

That's insane!!! I would NEVER spend that on a Silver Eagle (which probably means next to nothing because I only collect Roman coins), but it's ridiculous!!

Only problem with those 70 graded coins as we know .999 pure silver gets these little flyspecks and milk spots that show up much later after it been slabbed off that happens it’s no longer a 70 in anyone eyes . Same could be said for 69 grade as well or any type of pure .999 silver at least the 69 didn’t break your wallet too hard … Now if someone was building a registry set I can see them buying a 70 grade for that purpose . I myself don’t need to build a registry set of ASE that badly 

 

[Mohawk]

On 8/21/2021 at 8:25 PM, James Zyskowski said:

Jason Your absolutely correct. WLH and the Eagle Landing Ike’s are awesome. I’m growing into this new design. I’ll know a lot better when I see the reverse proof coming up.  🤓🙀

It's not a bad design....the new ASE one, that is.  It's actually pretty nice.  In addition to selling and collecting coins, I'm also a bird watcher and I really love raptors.  It's a good looking rendition of a bald eagle......definitely an improvement over what was a dreadful heraldic eagle that looked squashed, in my humble opinion.  I like a more naturalistic eagle. 

Edited August 22, 2021 by Mohawk

[J P M]

On 8/21/2021 at 8:22 PM, Mohawk said:

That's insane!!! I would NEVER spend that on a Silver Eagle (which probably means next to nothing because I only collect Roman coins), but it's ridiculous!!

Yes it is a bit off the wall. I paid $40 for a regular strike type 2 coin and I think that was only because the dealer I go to paid $38 He only buys a small amount of bullion just to keep his regular coin customers happy. I can see maybe paying $75 to $100 for a proof slab coin but that would be my max. I know a lot of you guys had to pay more when the mint did there on-line thing but that was a different situation. I am not paying a dealer who (pe-orderd) coins for the regular price and is just trying to take advantage of the hype. They are also selling the old ASE type 1 for the same price 239.99 if you get them together you get a deal of $475.00   can you imagine how many nice Morgan's I can get for that price.

[James Zyskowski]

I agree I need to remember that the dang things cost 💲 73 plus shipping $5. Makes it hard for the pricing when you add grading fees. But it’s crazy right now. Seems like a turkey shoot do I get a certified 69 now and lock in a price or wait for the usual price drop. Ever since the WW2 privy last year there seems to be no way to predict anything from the mint. Look at the crazy pricing on the W proof 2021 ase’s slabbed. ( currently I plan on moving away from ase’s to something new.   Dimes or WLH something. Thanks 🤓🙀🙏

Edited August 22, 2021 by James Zyskowski

[RonnieR131]

I don't order from the mint, but I have to say, that is one beautiful coin you have there James Z !!! 

[James Zyskowski]

On 8/22/2021 at 8:10 AM, ronnie stein said:

I don't order from the mint, but I have to say, that is one beautiful coin you have there James Z !!! 

I got lucky twice this year aseS & W. Mostly I got dogs (no offense) milk spots on every dang thing 🤓🙀

[J P M]

On 8/22/2021 at 10:33 AM, James Zyskowski said:

I got lucky twice this year aseS & W. Mostly I got dogs (no offense) milk spots on every dang thing 🤓🙀

I have one milk spot coin so far out of my whole 36 coin set of ASE's and I may replace that one if no others get spots. I heard somewhere if they don't get spots after a few years they most likely don't have the imperfections in the metal that brings the spots out. We will see 

[James Zyskowski]

My WW2 privy milk spots were there at opening. I am not going to go to far out on a limb but I think you may be right about the spots. Haven’t had any turn but one. They came that way   Certified and not fresh from the mint or later secondary 🤓🙀

[JT2]

Oh yes I love the new design of the silver eagle.  I am happy for you that you got yours in such a lofty grade and if you are happy with it so are we.  I myself only have 1 proof 70 silver eagle in my collection that i purchased that way just because it was the 2000 millinium silver eagle.  otherwise i have everyone both proof and ms (except for the 95-w)  in either a Dansco album or in OGP.  Thats just how i collect them.  others may do it different.