Intermediate Quiz: What caused these marks? 1 1

[Alex in PA.]

I detect confusion and disagreement among the masses of Sleepy Hollow.   You ought to take a trip over ATS to CU and see what the boys and girls think about this forum.  Oh, it's PG 13 and not for the faint of heart.

Signed, your friend 

 

[Zebo]

1 hour ago, Alex in PA. said:

I detect confusion and disagreement among the masses of Sleepy Hollow.   You ought to take a trip over ATS to CU and see what the boys and girls think about this forum.  Oh, it's PG 13 and not for the faint of heart.

Signed, your friend 

 

This should be a separate thread in itself with a discussion on possible solutions to increase the participation of knowledgable members and encouraging the novices to learn from them. All newbie inquiries on what something is worth or the fastest way to sell something should be directed to the Newbie thread and handled by those interested in helping.

I am not slighting any of the members that currently contribute - I value your contribution and have learned a lot from you. I would like to bring in more of you into the fold, however. As I have said before - I enjoy this forum very much (more so than others).

Alex's image (above) is very fitting.

[Insider]

This quiz on the other forum may evolve into a how to revive the NGC forum.  Members here should be happy that anyone at any level posts here with a question of any kind!     

This place has become a virtual Private Message Board for just a few folks and little content while other NGC offerings seem to be very active and popular.  I'm posting a new thread where this discussion belongs.

 

 

Edited September 7, 2020 by Insider

[bsshog40]

11 hours ago, Insider said:

This quiz has been answered on another forum (without all the fluff :  60 total posts.  16 are mine mostly to draw out the answer  Only 10 posts have to do with the quiz.  So due to lack of interest here, I'll post the answer with additional images Tuesday.  Then we can move on to one more quiz much easier.  

I think all the extra posts are a couple individuals trying to intellectually battle each other. I'm beginning to see more BS than knowledge! When these threads derail like this, it's just time to leave it where it sets and move on!

[Henri Charriere]

2 hours ago, bsshog40 said:

I think all the extra posts are a couple individuals trying to intellectually battle each other. I'm beginning to see more BS than knowledge! When these threads derail like this, it's just time to leave it where it sets and move on!

What you characterize as a derailment is a mere service interruption due to a wardrobe malfunction. How can you quit with only a day left before the answer to the quiz is formally unveiled?  This isn't Burger King.  We all can't have it our way. Your opinion matters. Stick around. 

[bsshog40]

38 minutes ago, Quintus Arrius said:

What you characterize as a derailment is a mere service interruption due to a wardrobe malfunction. How can you quit with only a day left before the answer to the quiz is formally unveiled?  This isn't Burger King.  We all can't have it our way. Your opinion matters. Stick around. 

You're to the point of me ignoring you. You have nothing worthwhile to say. You could cut down 90% of the wording in your posts and still come up with a proper response. I am tired of your rederick!!

[Henri Charriere]

1 hour ago, bsshog40 said:

You're to the point of me ignoring you. You have nothing worthwhile to say. You could cut down 90% of the wording in your posts and still come up with a proper response. I am tired of your rederick!!

Back At the Arrius household...

"You must be really important, dear!"

Why do you say that?

"Because some guy -- I think it's a guy, wrote you saying he was at the point of ignoring you."

Must be having a bad day. That's pretty formal.  I mean, why would you write someone to tell them that?  Why would you do it before a live studio audience of millions? Let me see that! .... Have the national security advisor draft a reply.

And accordingly, we conclude that the attack cannot meet the test of what a reasonable commander would have determined to be an acceptable loss of civilian life for the military advantage sought.

"Okay, now what?"

PRESS SEND.

Any other pressing issues I need to know about?

No, cherie.

Passez une bonne journee!

[Alex in PA.]

4 hours ago, bsshog40 said:

I think all the extra posts are a couple individuals trying to intellectually battle each other. I'm beginning to see more BS than knowledge! When these threads derail like this, it's just time to leave it where it sets and move on!

Totally agree with you.  

[bsshog40]

1 hour ago, Alex in PA. said:

Totally agree with you.  

Well I just fixed the problem with that Quintus guy. I don't need to see his again! He's not the first one I've had to ignore recently. NGC is really going into the tank when they allow people like this on the forum just to be able to run their mouths about nothing. When you see them post on a thread, I just have the tendency to move on because I know how the thread is going to turn from the actual topic!! There's not many threads going on but it seems they have to interfere in to every one of them and just deteriorate the topic. 

Edited September 7, 2020 by bsshog40

[Henri Charriere]

1 hour ago, bsshog40 said:

Well I just fixed the problem with that Quintus guy. 

Fake News.  The matter was referred to the national security advisor who, finding I was not responsible for disabling anyone's ability to scroll from an objectionable post, ruled accordingly. 

May I politely remind all litigants (and spectators) that the focus of Insider's post is, "What Caused These Marks?"

[physics-fan3.14]

8 hours ago, Insider said:

This quiz on the other forum may evolve into a how to revive the NGC forum.  Members here should be happy that anyone at any level posts here with a question of any kind!     

This place has become a virtual Private Message Board for just a few folks and little content while other NGC offerings seem to be very active and popular.  I'm posting a new thread where this discussion belongs.

 

 

I just put that troll Quintus on ignore a few minutes ago, and the place is already fresher. 

Oh, and I put the troll VKB on ignore as well. 

I strongly recommend everyone else do the same, and then they can just chase each other's tails around in circles without bothering us. 

[ldhair]

I'm going to put them on ignore as well but how many more members will they run off before they get the boot?

[Insider]

6 hours ago, Quintus Arrius said:

Back At the Arrius household...

"You must be really important, dear!"

Why do you say that?

"Because some guy -- I think it's a guy, wrote you saying he was at the point of ignoring you."

Must be having a bad day. That's pretty formal.  I mean, why would you write someone to tell them that?  Why would you do it before a live studio audience of millions? Let me see that! .... Have the national security advisor draft a reply.

And accordingly, we conclude that the attack cannot meet the test of what a reasonable commander would have determined to be an acceptable loss of civilian life for the military advantage sought.

"Okay, now what?"

PRESS SEND.

Any other pressing issues I need to know about?

No, cherie.

Passez une bonne journee!

In a recent discussion you said you were going to try to "change" how you post.  I took that to mean you were going to try to become a serious member here, a numismatist, rather than posting self-indulging attempts at being an adult comedian.  IMO, that was Great Idea but it didn't last long.  It is very hard for anyone to change.  Trust me, I KNOW.  Wink.

Carry on...

[Insider]

3 hours ago, physics-fan3.14 said:

I just put that troll Quintus on ignore a few minutes ago, and the place is already fresher. 

Oh, and I put the troll VKB on ignore as well. 

I strongly recommend everyone else do the same, and then they can just chase each other's tails around in circles without bothering us. 

Unfortunately, if two members were banned from this place it would eliminate 70% of the posts and the place would be even less attractive to waste time on.  So, IF I decide to ignore a member, I will not see their nonsense right?    

[Just Bob]

Just now, Insider said:

This quiz has been answered on another forum (without all the fluff :  60 total posts.  16 are mine mostly to draw out the answer  Only 10 posts have to do with the quiz.  So due to lack of interest here, I'll post the answer with additional images Tuesday.  Then we can move on to one more quiz much easier.  

I went to the other site to read the thread there, and snuck a peek at the answer. I will admit that I would not have guessed the cause. I guess I have never seen that happen before. I learned something new today, so thank you.

[Insider]

1 minute ago, Just Bob said:

I went to the other site to read the thread there, and snuck a peek at the answer. I will admit that I would not have guessed the cause. I guess I have never seen that happen before. I learned something new today, so thank you.

More of the answer tomorrow.

[Henri Charriere]

15 minutes ago, Insider said:

Unfortunately, if two members were banned from this place it would eliminate 70% of the posts and the place would be even less attractive to waste time on.  So, IF I decide to ignore a member, I will not see their nonsense right?    

From the Guidelines, an excerpt to refresh members' recollections:

YOU AGREE THAT OUR WEB SITE MAY EXPOSE YOU TO CONTENT THAT MAY BE OBJECTIONABLE OR OFFENSIVE.

[Insider]

8 minutes ago, Quintus Arrius said:

From the Guidelines, an excerpt to refresh members' recollections:

YOU AGREE THAT OUR WEB SITE MAY EXPOSE YOU TO CONTENT THAT MAY BE OBJECTIONABLE OR OFFENSIVE.

It is not objectionable at all, just sad.  BTW, It appears you are exposing yourself to fewer and fewer members.  LOL.

[Cat Bath]

23 hours ago, Insider said:

 I'll post the answer with additional images Tuesday. 

It's Tuesday  

[VKurtB]

I just went ATS to look at the thread there about "here". Yes, I am also a member there. (Hide your children!) I very seldom post there for a few key reasons.

1) They are extraordinarily "dealer-centric", as is their grading service itself. I feel "out of place" around most dealers, and 'net dealers in particular. I have an odd benefit from where I live, at least until Thanksgiving Day or so. Losing it is my one trepidation about moving to northern Alabama. Central Pennsylvania is absolutely CRAWLING with live coin auctions that are NOT online, and I have used those almost exclusively to build my collection, at bargain basement prices. So I do NOT have to choose between the 'net and "brick and mortar" or coin show dealers. I go "the 4th way", old school fast-talking rapid-paced patter auctioneering. These are NOT coin dealers running auctions. They might be selling hogs or tobacco the next day, and they ARE. I don't presently need most dealers, nor do I much care for most of 'em.

2) I have no interest in Registries, nor bullion, nor metal detecting, nor much of any of the other sections they or others might have but we do not. I do have key interest in ANA-style competitive exhibiting, on which NOBODY has a section, with the possible exception of the ANA at www.money.org. It's there, it's just not obvious. By the way, "bullionistas" get my blood boiling, so please don't go there, NGC.

3) While the ethos there (ATS) "bugs me to death", nothing in the thread over there about us strikes me as either objectionable, nor untrue. The loss caused by our "software change" is undeniable, as is the temporary (as it turns out) exclusion of PCGS slabs from the NGC registry. Boy, those suckers really do hold grudges.

Enough for now.

 

[Moxie15]

is there an answer??

[Just Bob]

6 minutes ago, Moxie15 said:

is there an answer??

He may be trying to think of a polite way to tell us that, when it comes to quizzes, most of us stink. Or at least we did on this one.

[Alex in PA.]

"I'm not on the NGC Forum, do they have as many CAC threads?"

[Alex in PA.]

"@Boosibri said:
Anyone care to recount the story of the HRH bannings?

I don’t know if the threads still exist but you can search for Norweb in the 2003 area. That was one set anyway. A forum member was trying to cross a Norweb NGC and it crosses without the attribution. The member made it a crusade and people took sides, etc. It escalated and got out of hand.

There were several rounds similar to that and people pushing the boundary, even with personal attacks on D H

For those who don’t know, D H username are the time was HomeRunHall but the HRH came to also be used as “his royal highness”.

I’m mostly recounting only to satisfy curiosity. It’s probably best to let it drop from here. Maybe I shouldn’t have mentioned it but it’s been referred to elsewhere off and on since I rejoined."

 

Edited names to protect the innocent.  March 2004

[Henri Charriere]

19 hours ago, Insider said:

BTW, It appears you are exposing yourself to fewer and fewer members.  LOL.

(I will comment after you have posted your long-awaited  answer to the quiz.)

[Insider]

Almost anytime you learn something "new" it is a good thing.

 

Answer:  When the oxidation on a coin becomes terminal BLACK, the surface under it is etched.  When the black color is removed chemically, the underlying surface is granular and grayish.  This was a difficult quiz because the marks resemble many things we see on coins.  This SLQ is very "special" because of the way the corrosion occurred (streaks resembling a lamination, planchet flaw, or strike thru).  Most terminal toning appears on a coin's rim - often associated with beautiful rainbow color going inward.  The images below is terminal toning away from the rim.  When it is removed, a corroded surface will be present.  This surface can be seen on the Bust Half.

 

 

Edited September 8, 2020 by Insider

[physics-fan3.14]

For anyone curious as to what this thread could have been with active participation and a lack of trolls, check out how CoinTalk handled it: https://www.cointalk.com/threads/intermediate-quiz-what-caused-these-marks.366112/

The discussion did eventually evolve into a comparison of the two forums... but I think even that is a worthy discussion. 

Edited September 9, 2020 by physics-fan3.14

[Conder101]

On 9/7/2020 at 10:47 PM, Insider said:

So, IF I decide to ignore a member, I will not see their nonsense right?

Right, unless someone else quotes it.  I think it will show up then.

 

4 hours ago, Alex in PA. said:

I don’t know if the threads still exist but you can search for Norweb in the 2003 area. That was one set anyway. A forum member was trying to cross a Norweb NGC and it crosses without the attribution. The member made it a crusade and people took sides, etc. It escalated and got out of hand.

Not quite right.  The member had a client who wanted a MS Norweb Hibernia. The member located one in a PCGS slab with provenance on the label.  Paid a significant premium for it because of the provenance and sold it to his client.  Client returned it as not being a Norweb, it didn't match any of the plates in the sale and ALL of the MS Hiberias were plated.  Member sent it back to PCGS.  PCGS's answer was to reholder and remove the provenance.  No compensation.  Member was out a nice chunk spent based on their identification.  Two other results of the affair, PCGS changed their requirement for adding a provenance tot he label, it had to be submitted in the auction flip and it had to be plated in the catalog.  Second result was they specifically excluded provenance from their grading guarantee.  To that point it hadn't been excluded.

[Zebo]

6 hours ago, Conder101 said:

Right, unless someone else quotes it.  I think it will show up then.

 

Not quite right.  The member had a client who wanted a MS Norweb Hibernia. The member located one in a PCGS slab with provenance on the label.  Paid a significant premium for it because of the provenance and sold it to his client.  Client returned it as not being a Norweb, it didn't match any of the plates in the sale and ALL of the MS Hiberias were plated.  Member sent it back to PCGS.  PCGS's answer was to reholder and remove the provenance.  No compensation.  Member was out a nice chunk spent based on their identification.  Two other results of the affair, PCGS changed their requirement for adding a provenance tot he label, it had to be submitted in the auction flip and it had to be plated in the catalog.  Second result was they specifically excluded provenance from their grading guarantee.  To that point it hadn't been excluded.

Interesting history.  I've had a few provenances added to coins in my collection and thought it fairly easy to do so - mistakes happen at times and have with two or three of mine. These were corrected quickly and without additional cost. So attempting to confirm a provenance before purchase is a good idea if the provenance is significant and will add to the cost of the coin. 

[MAULEMALL]

15 hours ago, Zebo said:

Interesting history.  I've had a few provenances added to coins in my collection and thought it fairly easy to do so - mistakes happen at times and have with two or three of mine. These were corrected quickly and without additional cost. So attempting to confirm a provenance before purchase is a good idea if the provenance is significant and will add to the cost of the coin. 

this tells you all you need to know about pcgs ,their guaranty and David hall

http://www.winsociety.org/newsletter/vol-3/happen_12-03.html

Edited September 10, 2020 by MAULEMALL