1909 vdb matte proof penny

[Kelly Bailey]

Vdb is very visible has strong details and grainy.surface some wear.but you can still see the Sandy areas around the sides especially

[MarkFeld]

Welcome to the forum. Your 1909-VDB cent is a business strike, produced for commerce, not a specially made Matte Proof example, struck for collectors. As such, it is worth approximately $5.

[MAULEMALL]

Nice coin.

Any story behind it?

 

[numisport]

Since there are so many matte proof 09 VDB Lincolns flying out lately, maybe I will image mine and designate it 'non matte proof'

[mumu]

Nice to finally see another fellow coin collector who trims their nails once in awhile.

[BillJones]

Here is a certified Matte Proof 1909 Plain Cent. Note the rims and the greater detail on Lincoln's portrait.

I would love to add a 1909-VDB Matte Proof Cent to my collection, but that is almost impossible because one person has cornered the market.

[robec1347]

1 hour ago, BillJones said:

Here is a certified Matte Proof 1909 Plain Cent. Note the rims and the greater detail on Lincoln's portrait.

I would love to add a 1909-VDB Matte Proof Cent to my collection, but that is almost impossible because one person has cornered the market.

Cornering the market may be a small exaggeration. One person has 53 of the 1194 minted coins (4.4%). That still leaves 1141 in other hands.

[BillJones]

1 hour ago, robec1347 said:

Cornering the market may be a small exaggeration. One person has 53 of the 1194 minted coins (4.4%). That still leaves 1141 in other hands.

The number issued for the Matte Proof 1909-VDB is more like 420 pieces. "The Red Book" cites 400 to 600 pieces. A substantial portion of that 1,194 montage was melted because they did not sell. Some collectors were not happy with the Matt Proof Cents and nickels after they got them, and some of those coins were spent. Subtract from that number the pieces that have been cleaned or otherwise abused. The "Coin Facts" estimate is 274 survivors. 

I have been looking for one of these coins for over five years. The few that have made it to the market have sold for 5 or 6 figures. I don't like most Proofs that grade less than PR-63 or 64. So far as I'm concerned, the coin is virtually uncollectable.

[Kelly Bailey]

Thank you'll very much for the info. I also have a 1959 I believe it's a proof and has 6 full steps on the Monticello building. How much do you think it's worth?

[Kelly Bailey]

On 1/11/2018 at 1:19 PM, MAULEMALL said:

Nice coin.

Any story behind it?

 

Thanks. I tweed a handful of what pennies for a good bracelet and that's how I came to own it. It does have some doubling in LIBERTY and the date also

[Kelly Bailey]

On 1/11/2018 at 11:13 AM, MarkFeld said:

Welcome to the forum. Your 1909-VDB cent is a business strike, produced for commerce, not a specially made Matte Proof example, struck for collectors. As such, it is worth approximately $5.

So all business strikes have like a metallic goldish surface?? 

[WoodenJefferson]

37 minutes ago, Kelly Bailey said:

Thank you'll very much for the info. I also have a 1959 I believe it's a proof and has 6 full steps on the Monticello building. How much do you think it's worth?

With Jefferson proofs, the 'Full Step' designation does not apply because virtually every proof for that year has at least 5 steps incorporated/visibly struck into the design. They sell from $14-$20 for above average condition (cameo coins sell for way more and are very desirable to collectors)

[LINCOLNMAN]

4 hours ago, BillJones said:

The number issued for the Matte Proof 1909-VDB is more like 420 pieces. "The Red Book" cites 400 to 600 pieces. A substantial portion of that 1,194 montage was melted because they did not sell. Some collectors were not happy with the Matt Proof Cents and nickels after they got them, and some of those coins were spent. Subtract from that number the pieces that have been cleaned or otherwise abused. The "Coin Facts" estimate is 274 survivors. 

I have been looking for one of these coins for over five years. The few that have made it to the market have sold for 5 or 6 figures. I don't like most Proofs that grade less than PR-63 or 64. So far as I'm concerned, the coin is virtually uncollectable.

The population reports support the lower estimates as well. Surely a very tough coin if someone has accumulated over 50 of them. I can remember when you could cherrypick these raw.  I actually picked one at a Steve Ivy auction, but, alas, I was not alone. Because so many really nice business strikes abound, the proofs tended to be obscured. 

[MarkFeld]

3 hours ago, Kelly Bailey said:

So all business strikes have like a metallic goldish surface?? 

Yours does not have what I would describe as a "metallic gold finish". But in answer to your question, neither all business strikes nor all Proofs have such a finish. The color can be different, due to a number of factors. And in the case of business strikes that circulate, the "finish" can vary considerably, based upon the degree of wear.

[Kelly Bailey]

5 hours ago, BillJones said:

The number issued for the Matte Proof 1909-VDB is more like 420 pieces. "The Red Book" cites 400 to 600 pieces. A substantial portion of that 1,194 montage was melted because they did not sell. Some collectors were not happy with the Matt Proof Cents and nickels after they got them, and some of those coins were spent. Subtract from that number the pieces that have been cleaned or otherwise abused. The "Coin Facts" estimate is 274 survivors. 

I have been looking for one of these coins for over five years. The few that have made it to the market have  sold for 5 or 6 figures. I don't like most Proofs that grade less than PR-63 or 64. So far as I'm concerned, the coin is virtually uncollectable.

I've been reading and comparing to many different other 1909's. You can't see the grainy texture in the picture, but it is grainy, and I've also checked the die marks, this coin is also double die, it is on the market for sale  

[Kelly Bailey]

7 hours ago, robec1347 said:

Cornering the market may be a small exaggeration. One person has 53 of the 1194 minted coins (4.4%). That still leaves 1141 in other hands.

That is what my coin looks like, of the link you sent me, it's not as glimmery like as the one in the pic tho, and it does have the flat squared rims. 

[robec1347]

1 hour ago, Kelly Bailey said:

That is what my coin looks like, of the link you sent me, it's not as glimmery like as the one in the pic tho, and it does have the flat squared rims. 

More importantly than squared rims are the presence of the diagnostics. There are are a few. If your coin doesn't have the diagnostics, it isn't a VDB proof. 

Also if, as you say, this coin is also a doubled die it definitely isn't the VDB proof. Do you have a closeup of the VDB on the reverse?

[Six Mile Rick]

[Six Mile Rick]

6 hours ago, Kelly Bailey said:

Thanks. I tweed a handful of what pennies for a good bracelet and that's how I came to own it. It does have some doubling in LIBERTY and the date also

Maybe --- You should have kept the bracelet. 

[Conder101]

12 hours ago, Kelly Bailey said:

You can't see the grainy texture in the picture, but it is grainy,

Due to the way they finished the surfaces of the die the 1909 business strikes typically have a grainy finish to them as well.  The fields weren't finished to flat smooth look like they make them today.  They seemed to be really into textured surface fields back then.

[BillJones]

Here is a business strike 1909-VDB cent that has been graded MS-65, Red by our hosts.

 

[BillJones]

1 hour ago, Conder101 said:

Due to the way they finished the surfaces of the die the 1909 business strikes typically have a grainy finish to them as well.  The fields weren't finished to flat smooth look like they make them today.  They seemed to be really into textured surface fields back then.

I have noted the "grainy surface" on many business strike coins for the Mercury Dime, Standing Liberty Quarter and most especially the Walking Liberty Half Dollars. I believe that this was intentional. The artists of the period who designed these coins characterized bright, shiny coins as "garish." I believe that some effort was made to subdue the luster on coins from this era.

[DWLange]

What Bill Jones said is absolutely correct. The original models for all of the new designs 1909-16 were created with textured fields to diffuse the light and eliminate the blinding glare which would detract from viewing the coins' details. This is evident of currency strikes, as well as proofs, though the texture is more deeply impressed on proofs by virtue of their fuller strikes. Charles Barber eliminated this texture from the Buffalo Nickel when the Type 2 was introduced midyear. George Morgan did the same thing with the Type 2 Standing Liberty Quarter. It was done also to a lesser extent with the other silver coin types of 1916 during 1917.