These exact colors on a morgan would go unquestioned

[mumu]

You're really being antagonistic and unfairly do. Just because Bruce has ties to the company is no reason to expect or presume that he would be other than honest.

 

And in my book, some of your "evidence" is far less credible than the printed catalog itself (not containing a reference to "Duckor").

 

Unfairly ? How so ? I only stated what I saw and knew to be true.

 

I never called Bruce dishonest nor would I. I said I wouldnt believe him. He is just probably mistaken. Though he did admit to describing the coin as an Ex-Duckor. Is that not evidence ?

 

Antagonistic ? I also asked him to leave the issue alone move on and to talk about coins... I even asked him about his most recent purchase...

 

I would still love to hear about his newp...

 

A catalog sent to print BEFORE the thread was even started is definitive evidence of Laura's description.

 

Print is static, but HTML is not. I don't see how the catalog being printed 1 way guarantees the lifelong matching HTML on a site. You yourself admitted that a different edit WAS made. The site may have matched the catalog at one point, been edited to add Duckor as seen by all of us, then edited again to remove duckor. That possibility is far to obvious to not have been noticed. But sounds more like it was ignored in hopes of using it as evidence, as if no one would think of multiple HTML edits. The site absolutely 100% mentioned ex-duckor at one point.

 

Really?

 

2 years and 11 months later?

 

HTML review failure?

 

It is as if Rumpelstiltskin just woke up and started reviewing coin catalogs and old Basher threads.

 

It was queued up for posting on an old laptop I powered on figured might as well post it for posterity.

[Afterword]

After reading every post in this thread, the only thing I see that has been accomplished, regarding AT vs NT, is that, if you believe a coin is AT - it is and if someone else believes the exact same coin is NT - it is. Much as, if you believe a coin is MS65 - it is and someone else believes the exact same coin is MS66 - it is.

 

Perhaps this is why TPGs are so popular.

[coinman_23885]

And the fact is that the auction site description and the catalog description should be the same - for every coin - because Laura writes them one time and then they go to the printers and online.

 

This has nothing to do with the debate that was in this thread, but meant merely as an aside. Does Laura write all of the catalog descriptions?

[mumu]

After reading every post in this thread, the only thing I see that has been accomplished, regarding AT vs NT, is that, if you believe a coin is AT - it is and if someone else believes the exact same coin is NT - it is. Much as, if you believe a coin is MS65 - it is and someone else believes the exact same coin is MS66 - it is.

 

Perhaps this is why TPGs are so popular.

 

I re-read it as well. And my point with the thread had been that Morgans get a pass without question. I suspect a lot of AT morgans are in slabs out there. I think Tonerguy said it best. Why would a doctor waste their time with Peace dollars? Theres no payoff. If AT Peace dollars exist and are getting into holders then 100x morgans exist and are getting into holders. But never do you see threads about AT in holder morgans.

[MarkFeld]

After reading every post in this thread, the only thing I see that has been accomplished, regarding AT vs NT, is that, if you believe a coin is AT - it is and if someone else believes the exact same coin is NT - it is. Much as, if you believe a coin is MS65 - it is and someone else believes the exact same coin is MS66 - it is.

 

Perhaps this is why TPGs are so popular.

 

I re-read it as well. And my point with the thread had been that Morgans get a pass without question. I suspect a lot of AT morgans are in slabs out there. I think Tonerguy said it best. Why would a doctor waste their time with Peace dollars? Theres no payoff. If AT Peace dollars exist and are getting into holders then 100x morgans exist and are getting into holders. But never do you see threads about AT in holder morgans.

 

Morgans absolutely do not necessarily "get a pass without question" - that is an overly broad and silly assertion. And ditto for the comment that "But never do you see threads about AT in holder morgans."

 

And a "doc" might "waste their time" practicing on common, low value Peace Dollars, in the hopes of improving his skills.

[mumu]

After reading every post in this thread, the only thing I see that has been accomplished, regarding AT vs NT, is that, if you believe a coin is AT - it is and if someone else believes the exact same coin is NT - it is. Much as, if you believe a coin is MS65 - it is and someone else believes the exact same coin is MS66 - it is.

 

Perhaps this is why TPGs are so popular.

 

I re-read it as well. And my point with the thread had been that Morgans get a pass without question. I suspect a lot of AT morgans are in slabs out there. I think Tonerguy said it best. Why would a doctor waste their time with Peace dollars? Theres no payoff. If AT Peace dollars exist and are getting into holders then 100x morgans exist and are getting into holders. But never do you see threads about AT in holder morgans.

 

Morgans absolutely do not necessarily "get a pass without question" - that is an overly broad and silly assertion. And ditto for the comment that "But never do you see threads about AT in holder morgans."

 

And a "doc" might "waste their time" practicing on common, low value Peace Dollars, in the hopes of improving his skills.

 

You can take that stance on anything. One "might get struck by lightning" and one "might win the powerballs".

[MarkFeld]

After reading every post in this thread, the only thing I see that has been accomplished, regarding AT vs NT, is that, if you believe a coin is AT - it is and if someone else believes the exact same coin is NT - it is. Much as, if you believe a coin is MS65 - it is and someone else believes the exact same coin is MS66 - it is.

 

Perhaps this is why TPGs are so popular.

 

I re-read it as well. And my point with the thread had been that Morgans get a pass without question. I suspect a lot of AT morgans are in slabs out there. I think Tonerguy said it best. Why would a doctor waste their time with Peace dollars? Theres no payoff. If AT Peace dollars exist and are getting into holders then 100x morgans exist and are getting into holders. But never do you see threads about AT in holder morgans.

 

Morgans absolutely do not necessarily "get a pass without question" - that is an overly broad and silly assertion. And ditto for the comment that "But never do you see threads about AT in holder morgans."

 

And a "doc" might "waste their time" practicing on common, low value Peace Dollars, in the hopes of improving his skills.

 

You can take that stance on anything. One "might get struck by lightning" and one "might win the powerballs".

 

And you can continue to use analogies that are a lot more far fetcehd than the probability of a coin doctor practicing in that manner.

[mumu]

After reading every post in this thread, the only thing I see that has been accomplished, regarding AT vs NT, is that, if you believe a coin is AT - it is and if someone else believes the exact same coin is NT - it is. Much as, if you believe a coin is MS65 - it is and someone else believes the exact same coin is MS66 - it is.

 

Perhaps this is why TPGs are so popular.

 

I re-read it as well. And my point with the thread had been that Morgans get a pass without question. I suspect a lot of AT morgans are in slabs out there. I think Tonerguy said it best. Why would a doctor waste their time with Peace dollars? Theres no payoff. If AT Peace dollars exist and are getting into holders then 100x morgans exist and are getting into holders. But never do you see threads about AT in holder morgans.

 

Morgans absolutely do not necessarily "get a pass without question" - that is an overly broad and silly assertion. And ditto for the comment that "But never do you see threads about AT in holder morgans."

 

And a "doc" might "waste their time" practicing on common, low value Peace Dollars, in the hopes of improving his skills.

 

You can take that stance on anything. One "might get struck by lightning" and one "might win the powerballs".

 

And you can continue to use analogies that are a lot more far fetcehd than the probability of a coin doctor practicing in that manner.

 

If his intent is to practice forever, then I concede. Eventually pay dirt is in the morgan/ase world. So it doesn't matter if he practices on Marbles. In fact it makes the case stronger. If it is assumed that the practice items are just that, then they'll be easier to spot. I realize your MO is to argue any point regardless but the end result is the same even if stuck on your speed bumps of debate

[MarkFeld]

After reading every post in this thread, the only thing I see that has been accomplished, regarding AT vs NT, is that, if you believe a coin is AT - it is and if someone else believes the exact same coin is NT - it is. Much as, if you believe a coin is MS65 - it is and someone else believes the exact same coin is MS66 - it is.

 

Perhaps this is why TPGs are so popular.

 

I re-read it as well. And my point with the thread had been that Morgans get a pass without question. I suspect a lot of AT morgans are in slabs out there. I think Tonerguy said it best. Why would a doctor waste their time with Peace dollars? Theres no payoff. If AT Peace dollars exist and are getting into holders then 100x morgans exist and are getting into holders. But never do you see threads about AT in holder morgans.

 

Morgans absolutely do not necessarily "get a pass without question" - that is an overly broad and silly assertion. And ditto for the comment that "But never do you see threads about AT in holder morgans."

 

And a "doc" might "waste their time" practicing on common, low value Peace Dollars, in the hopes of improving his skills.

 

You can take that stance on anything. One "might get struck by lightning" and one "might win the powerballs".

 

 

 

And you can continue to use analogies that are a lot more far fetcehd than the probability of a coin doctor practicing in that manner.

 

If his intent is to practice forever, then I concede. Eventually pay dirt is in the morgan/ase world. So it doesn't matter if he practices on Marbles. In fact it makes the case stronger. If it is assumed that the practice items are just that, then they'll be easier to spot. I realize your MO is to argue any point regardless but the end result is the same even if stuck on your speed bumps of debate

 

Well, I'm not going to argue with your post above, as I don't understand most of it.

 

Oh, and there are plenty of posters with whom I don't disagree or argue any points. But you tend to exaggerate, in order to make your points (as you have done on more than one occasion in this thread). And I call you on it when I see it.

[mumu]

After reading every post in this thread, the only thing I see ].

 

Hard to understand really? Which part?

 

If his intent is to practice forever, then I concede.(This means you win the argument if the coin doctor is only going to practice forever and never make any actual for market ATs. It was sarcasm, as clearly, this ins unlikely the case)

 

 

Eventually pay dirt is in the morgan/ase world. (This means theres no real money until you make Morgan and ASE ATs)

 

So it doesn't matter if he practices on Marbles.(This means practice doesn't count until it makes perfect. So the fact that hes practicing on P$ is arbitrary, because again, its just practice.)

 

In fact it makes the case stronger. If it is assumed that the practice items are just that, then they'll be easier to spot. (This means that the doctor is not as good while he practices, but gets better once he goes live. His practice items should be easier to spot. And in the case of P$ it seems to be so. Just take a look at the current listing of P$ on ebay with a "color" search. Someone is practicing a lot)

 

I realize your MO is to argue any point regardless but the end result is the same even if stuck on your speed bumps of debate(This means we lose more time arguing the little nuances you pick and choose to lawyer up on than the actual debate, like were doing right now as you baited me into clarifying a very clear post in an effort to sidetrack.)

[Afterword]

If someone did perfect artificial toning of Morgans, artificially toned Morgans and naturally toned Morgans would become indistinguishable. No one would know the difference.

 

But if the person who perfected this technique disclosed what he had accomplished and via video showed step by step how it was done, no one would know which Morgans were artificially toned and which were naturally toned. In effect, eliminating demand for toned Morgans entirely.

 

Let us hope, in this case, practice does not make perfect.

 

[mumu]

Mark, just to be clear, you disagree with me here clearly. Therefore you believe the opposite of what I am saying, so you believe the following to be true:

 

"There are more AT toned Peace dollars in TPG slabs as NT then there are Morgans"

 

Correct?

[coinman_23885]

Mark, just to be clear, you disagree with me here clearly. Therefore you believe the opposite of what I am saying, so you believe the following to be true:

 

"There are more AT toned Peace dollars in TPG slabs as NT then there are Morgans"

 

Correct?

 

Your logic escapes me. He never said anything close to the quoted text. Your argument is a straw man argument.

 

As for my thoughts:

 

1) There are a number of AT Morgan Dollars in TPG holders, and Morgans receive criticism too;

2) It doesn't matter what metallic canvas you use, the toning in the original image posted (removed but still visible in a subsequent post) is AT as can be. It looks painted on, the colors and progression look odd, etc.;

3) Coin doctors can and do practice on other series and often use cheap, common dates; and

4) Toned Morgans and Amercan Silver Eagles are not the only coins that would be profitable to AT. There are toning premiums for other series. Buffalo Nickels, Jefferson Nickels, and Ike Dollars have produced known or highly suspect AT coins in TPG slabs. And many of these coins sell openly on the market for large premiums, despite the dubious origin of the pieces.

 

 

[mumu]

Mark, just to be clear, you disagree with me here clearly. Therefore you believe the opposite of what I am saying, so you believe the following to be true:

 

"There are more AT toned Peace dollars in TPG slabs as NT then there are Morgans"

 

Correct?

 

Your logic escapes me. He never said anything close to the quoted text. Your argument is a straw man argument.

 

 

Well the opposite is the premise of my argument(more morgans get by into tpgs) and he's disagreeing with me, thereofore by induction...

 

I appreciate the thoughts after that. Would love to concentrate on the topic rather than defend whether my post is valid. Even if it isn't its worth discussing.

 

This was a pseudo-accidental bump of an old thread. However, I think it is more important now than it was back then. Not only does a search for "color" under Peace dollars bring up a slew of horribly AT coins for miles, but we lost one of the best toner sellers to the darkside, who in this very thread said "I wouldn't sell an AT coin", but who's once awesome store is now as many ATs(granted mostly raw) as real coins. I am not bashing him, just pointing out the state of the market on AT'd coins and how even awesome sellers are now profiting from it.

[MarkFeld]

Mark, just to be clear, you disagree with me here clearly. Therefore you believe the opposite of what I am saying, so you believe the following to be true:

 

"There are more AT toned Peace dollars in TPG slabs as NT then there are Morgans"

 

Correct?

 

Your logic escapes me. He never said anything close to the quoted text. Your argument is a straw man argument.

 

As for my thoughts:

 

1) There are a number of AT Morgan Dollars in TPG holders, and Morgans receive criticism too;

2) It doesn't matter what metallic canvas you use, the toning in the original image posted (removed but still visible in a subsequent post) is AT as can be. It looks painted on, the colors and progression look odd, etc.;

3) Coin doctors can and do practice on other series and often use cheap, common dates; and

4) Toned Morgans and Amercan Silver Eagles are not the only coins that would be profitable to AT. There are toning premiums for other series. Buffalo Nickels, Jefferson Nickels, and Ike Dollars have produced known or highly suspect AT coins in TPG slabs. And many of these coins sell openly on the market for large premiums, despite the dubious origin of the pieces.

 

 

Agreed on all counts.

[RWB]

Do they tone in "Straw Man" colors? OR maybe "Tin Man" colors....or "manely" Lion tones? Just...wandering down the Yellow Road of Texas.

[coinman_23885]

Do they tone in "Straw Man" colors? OR maybe "Tin Man" colors....or "manely" Lion tones? Just...wandering down the Yellow Road of Texas.

 

Ah, I have seen yellow textile toned coins that arguably resemble a yellow brick road.

[coinman_23885]

Mark, just to be clear, you disagree with me here clearly. Therefore you believe the opposite of what I am saying, so you believe the following to be true:

 

"There are more AT toned Peace dollars in TPG slabs as NT then there are Morgans"

 

Correct?

 

Your logic escapes me. He never said anything close to the quoted text. Your argument is a straw man argument.

 

 

Well the opposite is the premise of my argument(more morgans get by into tpgs) and he's disagreeing with me, thereofore by induction...

 

I appreciate the thoughts after that. Would love to concentrate on the topic rather than defend whether my post is valid. Even if it isn't its worth discussing.

 

This was a pseudo-accidental bump of an old thread. However, I think it is more important now than it was back then. Not only does a search for "color" under Peace dollars bring up a slew of horribly AT coins for miles, but we lost one of the best toner sellers to the darkside, who in this very thread said "I wouldn't sell an AT coin", but who's once awesome store is now as many ATs(granted mostly raw) as real coins. I am not bashing him, just pointing out the state of the market on AT'd coins and how even awesome sellers are now profiting from it.

 

None of the traits or outcomes are binary; it might not be either A or B, but maybe even Z.

[Danye West]

What is the coin?

[coinman_23885]

What is the coin?

 

The images are attached rather than embedded/linked, and NGC forum software will not give me the links to repost. For me, it is the first post on the second page (post #6457375), which shows one of the most blatant AT Peace Dollars I have ever seen.

[Danye West]

^

That is the worst AT'er I've ever seen.