The Toned Peace in Legend-Morphy Auction

[MarkFeld]

 

http://coins.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=1173&lotNo=4217

 

For those of you that have seen the coin in hand - how representative are the HA photos ?

 

 

I think it's more vibrant impressive, in hand.

[TonerGuy]

 

http://coins.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=1173&lotNo=4217

 

For those of you that have seen the coin in hand - how representative are the HA photos ?

 

 

I think it's more vibrant impressive, in hand.

 

And more colorful ? The Legend photos make the coin look like the color covers the entire surface of the coin while the HA photos seem to make it look like the colors are under a layer of russet toning...

[MarkFeld]

 

http://coins.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=1173&lotNo=4217

 

For those of you that have seen the coin in hand - how representative are the HA photos ?

 

 

I think it's more vibrant impressive, in hand.

 

And more colorful ? The Legend photos make the coin look like the color covers the entire surface of the coin while the HA photos seem to make it look like the colors are under a layer of russet toning...

 

Yes, and more colorful, too.

[mkman123]

Mark, is this the most impressive peace dollar you have ever seen?

[MarkFeld]

Mark, is this the most impressive peace dollar you have ever seen?

 

Define "impressive"?

 

 

[e1cnr]

This coin sure is beautiful

 

 

Has anyone seen any container that would tone a coin like that?

 

I had a wayte raymond 'christmas tree' that could have....

 

but any other ideas?

[BillJones]

It is nice, but I would not want to own it for that kind of money. How old is the holder that contains it? If it is a new holder I KNOW I would not want it.

[MarkFeld]

It is nice, but I would not want to own it for that kind of money. How old is the holder that contains it? If it is a new holder I KNOW I would not want it.

 

The holder is some time more recent than August of last year. That is based on a linked auction appearance in this thread, which shows the coin in a 64+ holder.

[MJ]

Well the bid is now at $8000+ juice. The next bid ($8500) will put it just over $10K all in.

 

MJ

[MarkFeld]

Well the bid is now at $8000+ juice. The next bid ($8500) will put it just over $10K all in.

 

MJ

 

I think not. Remember, Legend-Morphy has a 15% buyer's fee, not 17 1/2%.

[Tradedollarnut]

100!

 

 

PS - even at 17.5%, it takes at bit more to break that round number. As in $8,525,000.

[MarkFeld]

100!

 

 

PS - even at 17.5%, it takes at bit more to break that round number. As in $8,525,000.

 

I'm starting to get the feeling, that for some reason, MJ has been paying a 20% buyer's premium.

 

 

[Catbert]

Well, MJ DOES have access to Chinese money......

[MJ]

Well the bid is now at $8000+ juice. The next bid ($8500) will put it just over $10K all in.

 

MJ

 

I think not. Remember, Legend-Morphy has a 15% buyer's fee, not 17 1/2%.

 

Ok, got me. Just under. And I was using 15% in my head which makes this even worse. Dayum

 

MJ

[MJ]

100!

 

 

PS - even at 17.5%, it takes at bit more to break that round number. As in $8,525,000.

 

[gmarguli]

MS64 25062864

MS64+ 25398628

MS64+ 26205818

MS64+ 25511694

MS64+ 26488405

MS64+ 26082049 Green CAC

MS65 25056705, Green CAC

 

From the auction listing: NOTE: we have confirmed at one time it was a MS64+, the owner paid $8,800.00 as a 64. Clearly they knew the coin was undergraded! Good luck!

 

Why no Legendary rant about scumbag crackout artists who are ruining the hobby thanks to gradeflation?

 

Any why does the fact that CAC called this coin solid/high end for the grade for both MS64 and MS65 not draw any comments from the people that praise CAC as if they are the second coming? It should have either been a green bean for the MS64 and none for the MS65 or a gold bean for the MS64 and none/green/gold bean for the MS65.

 

I guess it's only other peoples mess that stinks.

[mumu]

MS64 25062864

MS64+ 25398628

MS64+ 26205818

MS64+ 25511694

MS64+ 26488405

MS64+ 26082049 Green CAC

MS65 25056705, Green CAC

 

From the auction listing: NOTE: we have confirmed at one time it was a MS64+, the owner paid $8,800.00 as a 64. Clearly they knew the coin was undergraded! Good luck!

 

Why no Legendary rant about scumbag crackout artists who are ruining the hobby thanks to gradeflation?

 

Any why does the fact that CAC called this coin solid/high end for the grade for both MS64 and MS65 not draw any comments from the people that praise CAC as if they are the second coming? It should have either been a green bean for the MS64 and none for the MS65 or a gold bean for the MS64 and none/green/gold bean for the MS65.

 

I guess it's only other peoples mess that stinks.

 

I tried to draw out the proCACs with some sarcasm but they werent biting on this one.

[nk1nk]

MS64 25062864

MS64+ 25398628

MS64+ 26205818

MS64+ 25511694

MS64+ 26488405

MS64+ 26082049 Green CAC

MS65 25056705, Green CAC

 

From the auction listing: NOTE: we have confirmed at one time it was a MS64+, the owner paid $8,800.00 as a 64. Clearly they knew the coin was undergraded! Good luck!

 

Why no Legendary rant about scumbag crackout artists who are ruining the hobby thanks to gradeflation?

 

Any why does the fact that CAC called this coin solid/high end for the grade for both MS64 and MS65 not draw any comments from the people that praise CAC as if they are the second coming? It should have either been a green bean for the MS64 and none for the MS65 or a gold bean for the MS64 and none/green/gold bean for the MS65.

 

I guess it's only other peoples mess that stinks.

 

I agree with this, and I think it is much more interesting that CAC green beaned this coin in a 64+ and a 65 holder. To me you have a middle 64 to low 65 coin and its not that surprising you send a coin to PCGS 7 times and you are only seeing IMO a 3/4 of a point swing, which to me is a likely outcome. CAC on the other hand, as you point out and many point out they have 3 almighty graders that never make mistakes so how can it be a soild 64 and a solid 65, especially on a coin like this, it had to really been given a close look, this is not an ordinary 23 S. Also this coin is the perfect example of why I don't get CAC, all the pro CAC guys go on and on about how they back up what they say and provide instant liquidity by offering to buy back their stickered coins, so on this potentially 10K plus coin they would offer you FMV of just under 4K? That's a great deal.......for someone.

 

Nick

[Tradedollarnut]

With all due respect to the torches and pitchforks, CAC has made it very clear that they will only issue a gold sticker if a coin is so clearly undergraded that it demands it. So yes, they will give a green to a coin that is solid for the next grade up ... And then a green again when it goes up. Not the first time, won't be the last.

 

A little hesitation is a good thing when you are taking on the liability to purchase it at the next grade

[mumu]

So yes, they will give a green to a coin that is solid for the next grade up ...

 

Is that the official stance now? Its a bit of a change from what had been previously defined, but ok, well go with this now. If I list any CAC coins on ebay with say a 64 green sticker, I will put that CAC has dtermied it is a solid 65.

[Tradedollarnut]

So yes, they will give a green to a coin that is solid for the next grade up ...

 

Is that the official stance now? Its a bit of a change from what had been previously defined, but ok, well go with this now. If I list any CAC coins on ebay with say a 64 green sticker, I will put that CAC has dtermied it is a solid 65.

 

Kindly quit being an obtuse idjut

[mumu]

So yes, they will give a green to a coin that is solid for the next grade up ...

 

Is that the official stance now? Its a bit of a change from what had been previously defined, but ok, well go with this now. If I list any CAC coins on ebay with say a 64 green sticker, I will put that CAC has dtermied it is a solid 65.

 

Kindly quit being an obtuse idjut

 

"So yes, they will give a green to a coin that is solid for the next grade up ... And then a green again when it goes up"

 

I dont care how much money you have, that statement DEMANDS that someone be obtuse. I consider it breaking news.

[mumu]

Where does it stop? The 64 Duckor Peace had a green sticker. It was solid for 65 by your definition. It has a green sticker now...the same green sticker...in a 65...so is it solid for 66 too?

[Tradedollarnut]

Really? Then you just didn't understand reality. It's old news. Gold stickers are for coins that scream "i'm undergraded". So if a coin is a B 65 in a 64 holder, it's not necessarily gonna get a gold sticker. And if it goes up a grade at the TPG, it still rightfully warrants a green sticker

[mumu]

Really? Then you just didn't understand reality. It's old news. Gold stickers are for coins that scream "i'm undergraded". So if a coin is a B 65 in a 64 holder, it's not necessarily gonna get a gold sticker. And if it goes up a grade at the TPG, it still rightfully warrants a green sticker

 

Just think how many fewer obtuse idjiots like me there would be if they put that on their website? Instead of keeping it an inside gem of information among the high roller society.

[Tradedollarnut]

It's self evident, sir.

[gmarguli]

With all due respect to the torches and pitchforks, CAC has made it very clear that they will only issue a gold sticker if a coin is so clearly undergraded that it demands it. So yes, they will give a green to a coin that is solid for the next grade up ... And then a green again when it goes up. Not the first time, won't be the last.

 

Solid for the next grade up. lol With all due respect to the CAC promoters, they can all cut the BS. Based on the SEVEN grade points we know (and who knows how many more times it was graded that we don't know about), it is extremely likely that this coin is a very nice MS64. I'll go as far to say a liner MS64/MS65. Basically, an MS64 "A" coin and wholly worthy of a green bean. However, at absolute best, it is an extremely low quality MS65 - a "C" coin. The fact that CAC green beaned it at both MS64 and MS65 (when it took at least 7 tries) points to them being just as inconsistent as the TPGs.

 

I assume you'll make sure the auction description is edited to reflect the fact that this coin graded MS64 SIX of SEVEN times, yet CAC quizzically decided to award a green bean to it at both the MS64 & MS65 levels. (thumbs u

 

[MarkFeld]

MS64 25062864

MS64+ 25398628

MS64+ 26205818

MS64+ 25511694

MS64+ 26488405

MS64+ 26082049 Green CAC

MS65 25056705, Green CAC

 

From the auction listing: NOTE: we have confirmed at one time it was a MS64+, the owner paid $8,800.00 as a 64. Clearly they knew the coin was undergraded! Good luck!

 

Why no Legendary rant about scumbag crackout artists who are ruining the hobby thanks to gradeflation?

 

Any why does the fact that CAC called this coin solid/high end for the grade for both MS64 and MS65 not draw any comments from the people that praise CAC as if they are the second coming? It should have either been a green bean for the MS64 and none for the MS65 or a gold bean for the MS64 and none/green/gold bean for the MS65.

 

I guess it's only other peoples mess that stinks.

 

I agree with this, and I think it is much more interesting that CAC green beaned this coin in a 64+ and a 65 holder. To me you have a middle 64 to low 65 coin and its not that surprising you send a coin to PCGS 7 times and you are only seeing IMO a 3/4 of a point swing, which to me is a likely outcome. CAC on the other hand, as you point out and many point out they have 3 almighty graders that never make mistakes so how can it be a soild 64 and a solid 65, especially on a coin like this, it had to really been given a close look, this is not an ordinary 23 S. Also this coin is the perfect example of why I don't get CAC, all the pro CAC guys go on and on about how they back up what they say and provide instant liquidity by offering to buy back their stickered coins, so on this potentially 10K plus coin they would offer you FMV of just under 4K? That's a great deal.......for someone.

 

Nick

 

Nick, please provide a single example in which anyone has claimed that "as you point out and many point out they have 3 almighty graders that never make mistakes". It should be easy, unless your statement was largely exaggerated. But you won't be able to do it, because your statement was just that.

 

Not only was your "many point out" inaccurate, but also, your "3 almighty graders" and "never make mistakes" were, as well. If you care to make a valid point, why not do so without resortng to straw man arguments?

[Tradedollarnut]

With all due respect to the torches and pitchforks, CAC has made it very clear that they will only issue a gold sticker if a coin is so clearly undergraded that it demands it. So yes, they will give a green to a coin that is solid for the next grade up ... And then a green again when it goes up. Not the first time, won't be the last.

 

Solid for the next grade up. lol With all due respect to the CAC promoters, they can all cut the BS. Based on the SEVEN grade points we know (and who knows how many more times it was graded that we don't know about), it is extremely likely that this coin is a very nice MS64. I'll go as far to say a liner MS64/MS65. Basically, an MS64 "A" coin and wholly worthy of a green bean. However, at absolute best, it is an extremely low quality MS65 - a "C" coin. The fact that CAC green beaned it at both MS64 and MS65 (when it took at least 7 tries) points to them being just as inconsistent as the TPGs.

 

I assume you'll make sure the auction description is edited to reflect the fact that this coin graded MS64 SIX of SEVEN times, yet CAC quizzically decided to award a green bean to it at both the MS64 & MS65 levels. (thumbs u

 

I dont give a mess about the auction description, it can say whatever. And I dont give a mess about your baiting either. It is quite evident how a coin can sticker at both 64 and at 65 - in fact, i am quite sure you know that. You just desire to stir the pot.

 

The market will determine if it's a C coin or not, now won't it? Funny how the one guy who has seen the coin in hand agrees with the grade and thinks it will realize a huge price. All the rest is just noise....

[gmarguli]

With all due respect to the torches and pitchforks, CAC has made it very clear that they will only issue a gold sticker if a coin is so clearly undergraded that it demands it. So yes, they will give a green to a coin that is solid for the next grade up ... And then a green again when it goes up. Not the first time, won't be the last.

 

Solid for the next grade up. lol With all due respect to the CAC promoters, they can all cut the BS. Based on the SEVEN grade points we know (and who knows how many more times it was graded that we don't know about), it is extremely likely that this coin is a very nice MS64. I'll go as far to say a liner MS64/MS65. Basically, an MS64 "A" coin and wholly worthy of a green bean. However, at absolute best, it is an extremely low quality MS65 - a "C" coin. The fact that CAC green beaned it at both MS64 and MS65 (when it took at least 7 tries) points to them being just as inconsistent as the TPGs.

 

I assume you'll make sure the auction description is edited to reflect the fact that this coin graded MS64 SIX of SEVEN times, yet CAC quizzically decided to award a green bean to it at both the MS64 & MS65 levels. (thumbs u

 

I dont give a mess about the auction description, it can say whatever. And I dont give a mess about your baiting either. It is quite evident how a coin can sticker at both 64 and at 65 - in fact, i am quite sure you know that. You just desire to stir the pot.

 

The market will determine if it's a C coin or not, now won't it?

 

The market will have to, since CAC clearly can't.