Fake coins in counterfeit PCGS holders website

[JIM F.]

Right from China

 

http://www.dhgate.com/wholesale/store/ff8080812b1e7f9d012b2331c7c63ad0.html

 

Does anyone really think the US Govt. will shut this guy down? He even promotes reselling these fakes on Ebay for a profit.

 

Great.

[comicparadox]

Now THERE'S an entrepreneur.

[JIM F.]

Here's a fake NGC from a different website.

http://www.tradetang.com/for-sale/1883-PROOF-MORGAN-NGC-PF65-WOW-MUST-SEE-COIN-PR65/118728-2623346.html

[JJSingleton]

And it will only get worse. I have to believe that PCGS is working on this problem. But their silence on the issue certainly is not creating a sense of urgency I think the collector and dealer base is looking for.

 

At least our host here has an image database for each coin graded. That seems to be a reasoned first step but PCGS has failed to take this step to date.

[JIM F.]

Ebay isn't helping the matter.

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&rt=nc&nma=true&item=170620278453&si=LPXNpU5IAhv1OIc2yiAqDzjiL5U%253D&viewitem=

 

[MarkFeld]

And it will only get worse. I have to believe that PCGS is working on this problem. But their silence on the issue certainly is not creating a sense of urgency I think the collector and dealer base is looking for.

 

At least our host here has an image database for each coin graded. That seems to be a reasoned first step but PCGS has failed to take this step to date.

I think that for many coins, PCGS has recently added images, which show up when the cert. number is entered into the cert. verification page.

[JIM F.]

I would think PayPal is dealing with a lot of chargebacks. One would think that this would compel Ebay to take action. Yet doesn't appear that this is happening.

[halfpint]

And it will only get worse. I have to believe that PCGS is working on this problem. But their silence on the issue certainly is not creating a sense of urgency I think the collector and dealer base is looking for.

 

At least our host here has an image database for each coin graded. That seems to be a reasoned first step but PCGS has failed to take this step to date.

 

...i certainly agree with the image database idea.

[123cents]

A image database is certainly one of the many steps needed to shut down these thieves.

[jtryka]

Which do you think is taking up more of eBay's time, looking for counterfeit coins in counterfeit slabs, or trying to do something about these sites in China that seem like almost identical sites to eBay's own site!

[Keigwin]

People love to bash ebay on this. "They're promoting counterfeiters." "They're sitting on their hands." "They make money from the sale of counterfeits." Come on, be reasonable.

 

How many products do you figure are counterfeited? Worldwide. I could name 20 without straining. There are probably hundreds or thousands. From designer handbags and shoes to watches and software.

 

How many auctions are running on ebay at any one time? Take a look at how many US coin auctions end in the next 60 seconds. Multiply that by thousands and you will get an idea of the volume.

 

How many expert authorities would ebay need to do a reasonably good search through all products that might be counterfeit, 'round the clock?

 

There is simply no way that ebay can manage this without taking Draconian measures no one wants. It's obvious how to stop coin counterfeiters from selling on ebay. Disallow the sale of coins.

 

I am not saying ebay is perfect or even entirely faultless. But this endless ebay bashing is pointless and shortsighted. It takes a community to police ebay. That's what the reporting system is about. And there are several ebay-approved coin experts, both here and ATS, who have a direct line and can get auctions shut down on their say-so.

 

Keep reporting the fakes and scammers. It isn't fruitless.

Lance.

[Chris1976]

Well said keigwin. Unfortunately the more and more that they cut down on current couterfit items the more and more the countifiters find new ways to which everyone has to notice and catch up on the latest. It truely is a vicious circle. Best advice I can give, if you see a listing for a counterfit, report it immediately. While this wont stop it from happening, it will however slow the sales of them down. Every little bit helps.

[jtryka]

I think you misunderstood, I wasn't bashing eBay, on the contrary, the two sites linked above seem to me to be almost identical to eBay but are not eBay! That would be a much bigger concern to them than a few fake coins, even though that might be a big deal to our small community.

[gmarguli]

Which do you think is taking up more of eBay's time, looking for counterfeit coins in counterfeit slabs, or trying to do something about these sites in China that seem like almost identical sites to eBay's own site!

 

Both pale in comparison to the time they spend trying to figure out how to squeeze out an extra cent from the sellers. Besides, eBay has no need to look for counterfeit coins on their site. Don't you know, there is not a problem with counterfeits on eBay. It is a completely safe site.

[JIM F.]

Here's a first step. Post a caution notice regarding ANY AND ALL sellers from China.

Like I said it is just a first step, and would be prudent anyway.

 

A more dramatic step would be to ban sellers from China, but they would probably find a more deceptive workaround.

[Conder101]

An image database is a great idea, but it is only useful if you have GOOD, pictures of the COIN that is in the slab. Pictures of the whole slab that don't show the coin well are frankly useless. You need to be able to blow up the coin image so you can compare it to the coin in the suspect slab. The image needs to be clear enough that you can see the marks on the coin so you can definitely prove the coin in the slab you are looking at is the same coin in the image database. I haven't seen too many of the NGC database images but those I have seen are not good enough.

[bsshog40]

China will never be stopped for producing counterfiet anything. I'm a part-time golfer and it's funny I was watching a show yesterday on the counterfeiting of golf clubs. Ping Golf Co. shutdown 40 counterfeiters last yr alone producing fake ping golf clubs. It's a non-stop business!

[Conder101]

Did they shut down 40 PRODUCERS of fake golf clubs, or 40 distributors?

[bsshog40]

Did they shut down 40 PRODUCERS of fake golf clubs, or 40 distributors?

I'm not quite sure. He just said they shutdown 40 counterfeiters of the clubs.

[Dcoin]

Ironically they take PayPal.

[e1cnr]

there is a VERO program on eBay

 

where legitimate patent/trademark holders can shut down eBay auctions

with much less proof than other eBayers reporting item

-> problem is that some legitimate items get closed that are authentic

 

 

 

that dhgate site is interesting - looks like an eBay knock-off and I would guess

that some eBay trademark/patents are being used without permission

 

 

I can't tell if it is all a scam with 1 major supplier using many seller names

or if there are that many counterfeit producers selling on that site

[disme]

Which do you think is taking up more of eBay's time, looking for counterfeit coins in counterfeit slabs, or trying to do something about these sites in China that seem like almost identical sites to eBay's own site!

 

Neither, eBay is doing nothing. A few weeks ago I notified them

about a counterfeit 1745 Russian rouble (known to be made in

China) and offered to provide proof. I made this complaint THREE

times. No reply.

 

Then I saw another of the Chinese sellers on eBay with a "coin"

from these same dies but marked COPY. I notified eBay that

the necessary proof was at hand on their own site and gave

them the appropriate numbers. Twice. No answer, as expected,

and nothing was done. The word "honesty" and "eBay" ought

not to appear in the same sentence. "Extreme Greed" and

"Arrogance" might be appropriate, however.

 

 

[disme]

A small further note. Not long ago the Chinese government supposedly

cracked down on a number of makers of counterfeit goods. That this

site is still in operation proves, I think, that the Chinese government

itself is deeply involved in this work.

[RockMyAmadeus]

The Chinese government WANTS counterfeit products to continue. There are entire towns dedicated to counterfeiting specific items. Counterfeiting keeps people busy. Busy people = docile people.

[Kenneth F]

eBay will drag their feet.. they are making money!

[BillJones]

I am not saying ebay is perfect or even entirely faultless. But this endless ebay bashing is pointless and shortsighted. It takes a community to police ebay. That's what the reporting system is about. And there are several ebay-approved coin experts, both here and ATS, who have a direct line and can get auctions shut down on their say-so.

 

 

I am sorry, but I could not disagree with you more. EBay has dragged its feet on this counterfeit issue for years now. You can do business with them if you want, but personally I will not do business with them.

 

You can flame me to hell, but I’m sick and tired of eBay’s lack on interest with this problem. EBay does not deserve our business. There are plenty of other companies out there that sell coins that have greater interest in combating the counterfeit problem. Rewarding a company that will not get serious about wrongdoing is not worth whatever bargains you find on that site.

[disme]

If the people at GreedBay REALLY wanted to stop counterfeit coins

(or other items for that matter) coming from China it could easily be

done, though of course it would cut into profits for the Lords of eBay.

All they would have to do is require that ANY seller from that country

receive a certification from a central clearing agency (in China) that

the item is genuine. Failure of the clearing agency to act in good faith

would mean that all sales from China would be halted until the matter

was resolved.

 

The chances of GreedBay doing ANYTHING all this line? Roughly ZERO.

Some poor eBay official might not be able to put in an Olympic-sized

swimming pool at one of his or her overseas estates.

 

[bsshog40]

It would be hard to put such a stipulation on one country. It is a well known fact that China is the major counterfeiting production country but Ebay is also a privately owned company. Lawsuits for discrimination could come about with that idea. Ebay does not persue this so much as they don't actually have to. There is small print in item descriptions stating "Seller assumes all responsibility for this listing". I think this is a small scapegoat for Ebay not having to strictly enforce stopping all counterfeit auctions.

 

[disme]

It would be hard to put such a stipulation on one country. It is a well known fact that China is the major counterfeiting production country but Ebay is also a privately owned company. Lawsuits for discrimination could come about with that idea. Ebay does not persue this so much as they don't actually have to. There is small print in item descriptions stating "Seller assumes all responsibility for this listing". I think this is a small scapegoat for Ebay not having to strictly enforce stopping all counterfeit auctions.

 

Always nice to hear from people making lame excuses for GreedBay. The

latter can do anything it likes with respect to China. eBay could stop much

of the counterfeit materials being sold on their website but this would of

course cut into profits for the top level and cannot be permitted.

 

If GreedBay were a public entity then a treaty might apply. They aren’t and

it doesn’t. The U.S. government, by the way, discriminates all the time or

perhaps the poster has not heard of North Korea, Cuba, or Iran.

[bsshog40]

It would be hard to put such a stipulation on one country. It is a well known fact that China is the major counterfeiting production country but Ebay is also a privately owned company. Lawsuits for discrimination could come about with that idea. Ebay does not persue this so much as they don't actually have to. There is small print in item descriptions stating "Seller assumes all responsibility for this listing". I think this is a small scapegoat for Ebay not having to strictly enforce stopping all counterfeit auctions.

 

Always nice to hear from people making lame excuses for GreedBay. The

latter can do anything it likes with respect to China. eBay could stop much

of the counterfeit materials being sold on their website but this would of

course cut into profits for the top level and cannot be permitted.

 

If GreedBay were a public entity then a treaty might apply. They aren’t and

it doesn’t. The U.S. government, by the way, discriminates all the time or

perhaps the poster has not heard of North Korea, Cuba, or Iran.

I don't make lame excuses for anything. I state facts. If you wanna snivel about ebay, stay off of it!!