Fake coins in counterfeit PCGS holders website

[disme]

I don't make lame excuses for anything. I state facts. If you wanna snivel about ebay, stay off of it!!

 

It would appear that I struck a raw nerve with an eBay supporter.

 

 

[bsshog40]

I don't make lame excuses for anything. I state facts. If you wanna snivel about ebay, stay off of it!!

 

It would appear that I struck a raw nerve with an eBay supporter.

 

My friend you do not even know me. Ebay and our marketplace are my only sources for selling and buying. I don't like the counterfeits anymore than anyone else but making comments on a website forum will not change what is going on in the public market. If your goal is to stop these actions, then maybe you need to venture into the legal system and do something about it instead downgrading people and their opinions here!!

[disme]

I don't make lame excuses for anything. I state facts. If you wanna snivel about ebay, stay off of it!!

 

It would appear that I struck a raw nerve with an eBay supporter.

 

My friend you do not even know me. Ebay and our marketplace are my only sources for selling and buying. I don't like the counterfeits anymore than anyone else but making comments on a website forum will not change what is going on in the public market. If your goal is to stop these actions, then maybe you need to venture into the legal system and do something about it instead downgrading people and their opinions here!!

 

Translation: Everyone should keep quiet as public comments

offend this poster. We all know that the government will do

nothing, a point which he carefully avoids mentioning.

 

The poster is, of course, correct in that comments on this forum

will not solve the problem. Keeping quiet about it, however, will

only make matters worse.

[BillJones]

Ebay and our marketplace are my only sources for selling and buying.

 

It is indeed unfortunate that eBay and "our marketplace" is the only place that you can do business. Given the situation with eBay, you should on their case as much as anyone for them to clean up their act. The concern here is that newbie collectors and others who are not sophisticated buyers should be advised that eBay has not taken a strong interest in fixing their counterfeit problem.

 

There are legitimate dealers who buy and sell on eBay, and if one can establish a list of those good sources, one can do business with them on eBay. However if one wonders around buying whatever “looks good” even if it is in “a PCGS or NGC” holder, that person should be aware that counterfeit coins in counterfeit holders are being offered on eBay and eBay is not providing due diligence to combat it.

 

[bsshog40]

I don't make lame excuses for anything. I state facts. If you wanna snivel about ebay, stay off of it!!

 

It would appear that I struck a raw nerve with an eBay supporter.

 

My friend you do not even know me. Ebay and our marketplace are my only sources for selling and buying. I don't like the counterfeits anymore than anyone else but making comments on a website forum will not change what is going on in the public market. If your goal is to stop these actions, then maybe you need to venture into the legal system and do something about it instead downgrading people and their opinions here!!

 

Translation: Everyone should keep quiet as public comments

offend this poster. We all know that the government will do

nothing, a point which he carefully avoids mentioning.

 

The poster is, of course, correct in that comments on this forum

will not solve the problem. Keeping quiet about it, however, will

only make matters worse.

No need to translate what I have to say. I know what I'm saying and it surprises me that someone thinks they have the intelligence to re-word another individuals statement. I've been on these forums much longer than you have and I've seen members here catch alot of counterfeits on ebay and get them stopped. My hats off to them!! I'm a low budget collector so I don't have a lot of worries about running into counterfeit coins in what I am able to purchase. There is a widespread problem on Ebay no doubt. If you or anyone else spots them, then report them to ebay and get them removed. I don't stand for what happens there but it's also not part of my job requirements to police ebay for every counterfeit coin that is being sold. A company should be responsible for what they represent. They have made it even harder to contact potential buyers from purchasing these also by hiding there identities. This is not a company that cares how many people get ripped off but mainly a company that it's only concern is money. I would appreciate if all you have to say about me is sarcasm, that you not refer your comments directly at me anymore. You have your opinions about this problem, which I agree with, but it's also a problem that will never go away. You may want to use your posting privilege to help enlighten unknowledgeable collectors what to look for instead of who to blame. Have a great day mmy friend!!

[BillJones]

I'm a low budget collector so I don't have a lot of worries about running into counterfeit coins in what I am able to purchase.

 

Sadly that statement is incorrect.

 

One of the great fears that many of us, who are advanced collectors, have is that the Chinese will flood the market with common date coins, and that those coins will be sold to lower budget collectors at local shows and on the Internet. The Chinese counterfeiters can make these coins cheaply and afford to sell them are market or blow market prices, and many of the potential buyers don’t have the expertise to spot the counterfeits.

 

This poses a greater threat to the hobby than many of the other problems we have had in the past. Some small collectors grow up to become more noteworthy collectors as their knowledge and finances mature. This would be one way to describe me. I started out as a ten year old child with a Red Book and two Whitman Lincoln cent folders and went from there.

 

The promulgation of counterfeits is a problem for all of us no matter the size of our collections or our pocketbooks.

 

[bsshog40]

I'm a low budget collector so I don't have a lot of worries about running into counterfeit coins in what I am able to purchase.

 

Sadly that statement is incorrect.

 

One of the great fears that many of us, who are advanced collectors, have is that the Chinese will flood the market with common date coins, and that those coins will be sold to lower budget collectors at local shows and on the Internet. The Chinese counterfeiters can make these coins cheaply and afford to sell them are market or blow market prices, and many of the potential buyers don’t have the expertise to spot the counterfeits.

 

This poses a greater threat to the hobby than many of the other problems we have had in the past. Some small collectors grow up to become more noteworthy collectors as their knowledge and finances mature. This would be one way to describe me. I started out as a ten year old child with a Red Book and two Whitman Lincoln cent folders and went from there.

 

The promulgation of counterfeits is a problem for all of us no matter the size of our collections or our pocketbooks.

Well that's why I'm here Bill. If I happen to run across them in my searching, then this is where I get my knowledge of what makes it a counterfeit. I have 2 counterfeit coins in my collection, One I knew was counterfeit and one I didn't know until I posted it here. Luckily, I paid very little for the one I was unaware of and I keep it now to help me with the diagnostics of what makes it counterfeit. As the other poster (disme) keeps insinuating that I basically support Ebay and thier practices is wrong. My sources are limited for my buying but I do have some reputable dealers on ebay I use when they have something I need. This is some of the reasons that the counterfeiting problem hasn't effected me much. If I were to get in a position to purchase a coin that is well known for counterfeiting, then for sure, any potential buys would be posted here first. I don't have enough knowledge of detecting these as much as alot of members here do.

[disme]

There is a widespread problem on Ebay no doubt. If you or anyone else spots them, then report them to ebay and get them removed.

 

Well, I did just that. FIVE reports on the same counterfeit,

with iron-clad proof. eBay simply ignored the problem and

never even bothered to respond. I have in fact reported a

considerable number of such counterfeits to eBay, always

with proof, and the net result has been ZERO. These are,

however, foreign fakes, not U.S. eBay is more sensitive

toward U.S. fakes for obvious reasons. The foreign field

is so fragmented that eBay seems to feel safe in doing

nothing. Except lip service, of course.

 

And for the record, the 1745 counterfeit rouble in question

was published in the Journal of the Russian Numismatic

Society.

 

The problem is bad enough now but will be worse, much

worse, in the future as these fakes permeate into all facets

of the marketplace. They are already showing up at flea

markets where the unwary are cheated. Counterfeits have

always been with us but when the effort is supported by the

Chinese government the problem is a real threat. And it is not

just coins.

 

 

 

 

 

[bsshog40]

And as I stated before, ebay only cares about the money. They have gotten very greedy over the last couple years. They've raised fees high enough that it makes people try to steer away from them but there aren't any auction sites that gets the traffic ebay does. I presume if another site got as big as ebay, the counterfeits would show up there also. In fact it wouldn't surprise me if the smaller auction sites have similiar problems with less people trafficing them.

[Keigwin]

Bill, I usually agree with your positions and respect your coin knowledge. I just don't understand how you want ebay to tackle the problem of many thousands of counterfeit products being offered on ebay at any time.

 

Let's hear some meaningful, practical methods for stopping the abuse, keeping in mind that the channels delivering counterfeits can easily overcome routing restrictions, gov't certification, etc. Remember, this is the underworld with hundreds of billions of dollars at stake.

 

Let's also keep in mind that counterfeit coins are a very, very small fraction of the problem. So proposals should deal with everything that is counterfeited and sold on ebay, from baseball cards to sunglasses. Consider Dunhill lighters, Gucci handbags, Prada shoes, Ping golf clubs, Tiffany rings, Rolex watches, Mont Blanc pens, Louis Vuitton wallets, Sony electronics, Motorola phones, Adidas shoes. And thousands more.

 

The only "fix" that I can see is for ebay to abandon their business model and turn ebay into a consignment shop where ebay does all the selling and guaranteeing. Naturally it would be a very different business. Consignors would have to pre-qualify which would be laborious and time consuming and cut out the little guys and easy, spontaneous selling. The range of products and the numbers would have to be significantly smaller. Overhead like staffing would be much greater and guarantees might be costly. So selling fees would be way higher. Buyers would pay much more, sellers would get much less. The underground would have to find another way, maybe through their own sites like tradekey.com

 

As I said earlier, ebay is not blameless and can probably do more. But the problem with counterfeit products is simply not going away. ebay is just one of today's convenient channels.

 

If you hate what ebay has become don't go there. If you hate that counterfeits are marketed through ebay ask yourself if you really believe they would go away if ebay went away.

Lance.

[TheMightyDuke]

dsime...your reporting problems (read, your reporting items with no action taken) isn't unusual, but there is one way to report to ebay, which I have used and either the item is removed, or the decision to leave it run, due to ebay's discretion. BUT, besides ALWAYS being responded to, I have an over 90% success rate with getting items shut down.

 

It DOES matter WHICH report type you use. The 'report item' on the item page is worthless. If you are using that form, then that's the reason (seems no action gets taken from that form lots of times).... forget that and report it here I'm SURE you'll get much more satisfying, as well as successful, results. If you are already using that form, I find it very odd they don't do anything.

 

Whenever I report an item through that link, I always, ALWAYS get a response within 36 hours (not unreasonable, and sometimes I get the response within 12-24 if the item has a short time left), and the item, if deemed bammable, it has already been bammed upon receipt of the message. Again, if you ARE using that form, I find it very unusual that no action is taken. JM2CW.

[disme]

dsime...your reporting problems (read, your reporting items with no action taken) isn't unusual, but there is one way to report to ebay, which I have used and either the item is removed, or the decision to leave it run, due to ebay's discretion. BUT, besides ALWAYS being responded to, I have an over 90% success rate with getting items shut down.

 

It DOES matter WHICH report type you use. The 'report item' on the item page is worthless. If you are using that form, then that's the reason (seems no action gets taken from that form lots of times).... forget that and report it here I'm SURE you'll get much more satisfying, as well as successful, results. If you are already using that form, I find it very odd they don't do anything.

 

Whenever I report an item through that link, I always, ALWAYS get a response within 36 hours (not unreasonable, and sometimes I get the response within 12-24 if the item has a short time left), and the item, if deemed bammable, it has already been bammed upon receipt of the message. Again, if you ARE using that form, I find it very unusual that no action is taken. JM2CW.

 

Thanks for the heads-up. Actually I have used the other form in

times past but the coins were again foreign and nothing but the

canned response was received. On the rare occasion that I

reported a U.S. counterfeit there was sometimes success, though

I suspect others were also reporting the item in question.

 

In this case I did use, as you thought, the "report item."

[Forgerywatcher-migration]

From past postings on the CU board it appears PCGS did go after Dhgate and their counterfeit PCGS listings. They have all been removed.

The Asians already have plenty of US contacts to unload their forgeries.

Marketing is the key for these counterfeit sellers. These fakes can show up anywhere.

Hundreds of these fakes can be reviewed using the following links.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/coinforgeryebay/

[jom]

This seems like a huge problem. Therefore, how can I know a fake NGC or PCGS slab from a real one. Those pictures you listed are helpful but many look like legit ones. Help!

 

jom

[MarkFeld]

This seems like a huge problem. Therefore, how can I know a fake NGC or PCGS slab from a real one. Those pictures you listed are helpful but many look like legit ones. Help!

 

jom

My suggestion is to focus on the coins, themselves, and only deal with sellers you know you can trust.