Hard Times Tokens - Post Your Images

[No+4Me]

Nice Boar!

[Hard Times]

Here is my newest HTT picked up at FUN, the differences in the shades of brown toning on the obverse and reverse are accurate. This is an R2 token but only about 12 are certified at NGC, the finest certified is this one, no others at 65, including RB. Some nice die polish lines on the obverse with indigo rim toning. The reverse has some untoned red showing through and is rotated CW, very nice. The whitish grunge areas and lines are on the slab. This is one of the 'Not One Cent' series of HTT's.

 

Best, HT

 

[BROADSTRUCK]

Here is my newest HTT picked up at FUN, the differences in the shades of brown toning on the obverse and reverse are accurate. This is an R2 token but only about 12 are certified at NGC, the finest certified is this one, no others at 65, including RB. Some nice die polish lines on the obverse with indigo rim toning. The reverse has some untoned red showing through and is rotated CW, very nice. The whitish grunge areas and lines are on the slab. This is one of the 'Not One Cent' series of HTT's.

 

Best, HT

 

 

Good news first... Nice to see you picked up a HTT at FUN!

 

Now the somewhat bad news... I've had this example in hand before at a couple shows and it's wrongly designated by NGC. It's not a Low-36/HT-51 but a Low-35/HT-50. Still a nice addition as a Low-35/HT-50 is just as tough to locate. The NGC pop reports on HT-49, HT-50, and HT-51's are useless are all three are always wrongly designated almost as often as the HT-31 through HT-34 Illustrious Predecessor HTT varieties.

 

Look at the berries, stems, and leave configurations on the reverse dies in Schuman's book Low-34 through Low-36 between the "E" in ONE and "E" in DEFENSE as that's the only areas of discrepancy as the obverse dies are all the same.

[Hard Times]

Alas, there are only 4 HT-50's certified at NGC and none above MS63, seems it is even tougher than the 51, I guess I will just have to deal with that and assuming that only another half dozen or so are mis-attributed.

 

I put in my HT-8 to NGC for designation review since they have HT-7 on the holder. At least I will get a new edge view holder out of the deal.

 

Best, HT

[BROADSTRUCK]

Alas, there are only 4 HT-50's certified at NGC and none above MS63, seems it is even tougher than the 51, I guess I will just have to deal with that and assuming that only another half dozen or so are mis-attributed.

 

I put in my HT-8 to NGC for designation review since they have HT-7 on the holder. At least I will get a new edge view holder out of the deal.

 

Best, HT

 

None above MS63 as they are all in HT-49 or HT-51 holders

 

Here below is my Low-35/HT-50 in a NGC MS64BN designated HT-49 holder.

Ex: Dice & Hicks, Oechsner, Miller, DuPont, Tilden, Bird Collections.

Also the example of a Low-35 in Edgar Adams 1914 Plates of Lyman Low's Hard Times Tokens.

 

 

Hope you included a copy of the Brand auction plate for the provenence pedigree on your HT-8?

 

I'll get NGC to change all my wrongly designated HTT's when I hit 2 boxes of 20... I'm getting close!

 

Oh what's up to date pop on the HT-49's?

 

Lastly the dealer that you bought this HTT from also has a MS65BN HT-56 which is wrongly designated as a HT-57.

[Kamillion]

i'm really liking these hard times tokens. are civil war tokens considered something different?

 

also would you suggest only buying graded HTT ? i see many raw ones on eBay but i feel many have problems or could be fake.

[Hard Times]

Kamillion, buy them in certified holders if you can, I would not worry about fakes in raw but almost all of them in ebay are problem tokens that are raw. So yes buy the graded ones in TPG holders, preferably NGC, but get yourself a copy of Rulau - Hard Times Tokens, 9th edition (2001) with brown cover.

 

Broadie, there are 20 'HT-49' in NGC holders

 

NGC pop report, number in each grade in parentheses, lesser grades not listed here by me:

 

HT49 - 20 BN, 61(2),62(2),63(4),64(5)

HT50 - 4 BN, 62(1),63(1)

HT51 - 12 (2 in RB), 62(1),63(2),64(1),65(1)

 

 

Can the die polish lines below Miss Liberty's cheek in the field be used to attribute HT50?

 

Best, HT

[Hard Times]

"Hope you included a copy of the Brand auction plate for the provenence pedigree on your HT-8?"

 

Sadly, I don't have this.........

[BROADSTRUCK]

i'm really liking these hard times tokens. are civil war tokens considered something different?

 

also would you suggest only buying graded HTT ? i see many raw ones on eBay but i feel many have problems or could be fake.

 

Hard Times tokens where struck on a Large Cent sized planchet during the 1830's to 1840's as a need for commerce. It's been noted that during this period HTT's made up for 26% of large cents circulating. Civil War Tokens are struck on a Small Indian Head Cent sized planchet in the 1860's and are a completely different animal.

 

Many raw eBay HTT's do have problems, however there's also some being listed which are issue free. Since TPG's started grading these well over a decade ago many of the higher end HTT's have been submitted to NGC, ANACS, and ICG. That being said many exonumia dealers and specialty auctions still sell higher end examples raw. I personally own a good amount of both and am only interested in the token, so encapsulated or not makes no difference to me.

 

 

[BROADSTRUCK]

Broadie, there are 20 'HT-49' in NGC holders

 

NGC pop report, number in each grade in parentheses, lesser grades not listed here by me:

 

HT49 - 20 BN, 61(2),62(2),63(4),64(5)

HT50 - 4 BN, 62(1),63(1)

HT51 - 12 (2 in RB), 62(1),63(2),64(1),65(1)

 

 

Can the die polish lines below Miss Liberty's cheek in the field be used to attribute HT50?

 

Best, HT

 

Thanks for the pops HT.

 

No as the obverse die polish lines are also present on the HT49,50 and 51 as the same die was used.

 

The reverse die was re-cut and the only difference between these 3 varieties is in the berries, stems, and leaves in the area between "E" in the word ONE and "E" in word DEFENSE.

 

Take a good look at Schuman's book plated examples as you can not see anything in Rulau's newspaper print type plates.

 

 

[BROADSTRUCK]

Aaron White Satirical, HK-829, SC$1, Copper, Rarity-6

 

 

Although not a HTT I've included this in my collection as it is a Satirical issue. Also dated 1837 it shows the HTT era boar in 1857 is no longer running but firmly hung on a butchers hook to trim the fat. Considered a So-Called Dollar it's the only design I know of which does not represent an exposition, or other event in history. It was privately struck by an individual during the times of political and financial crisis in the United States. This example is hard for me to photograph as in hand it is fully mint red proof-like obverse/reverse with trace delicate deep blue patina in the centers of each side which pop when rotated under a light source.

 

Aaron White Satirical Dollar - Early Civil War Period

 

Aaron White, eccentric Connecticut lawyer, believed that the financial strain of the War of the Rebellion would bankrupt the United States and that as a result, all paper money, "greenbacks" in particular, would become worthless. He hoarded hard money as insurance against such catastrophe.

 

When the hoard was examined several years after White’s death, it was found to contain 350 gold and 100 silver dollars, 200 silver half dollars, 5000 2-cent pieces, 60,000 large and 60,000 nickel cents, 250 Colonials, and more than 20,000 foreign coins.

 

White struck his satirical pieces to show contempt for greenbacks, printed to finance the war. Specie or hard money was so scarce when the war commenced that the government had to print money to meet its needs. White remembered the suspension of specie payments by U.S. banks and the resultant hard times of 1837 and 1857. Also in his memory was the issue by wildcat banks and private concerns of an avalanche of paper money, value of which fluctuated greatly, and much of which was worthless. He wished to refresh the memories of the people to the curses of paper money.

 

 

Obverse: Sow, hanging from hook; to l., Sus; to r., Pendens; above, 1837; below, 1857; legend to l., near edge, Never Keep; to r., A Paper Dollar. Line below 1837 and above 1857.

 

Reverse: Sow, to r., rooting in jar marked $10; above, Sus (sow); below, Toll Ens (rooting); to r., Deux Sous (two sous); to l., Di Oboli (two oboli—small Greek copper coins); legend, near edge, above, in Your Pocket; near lower edge, Till Tomorrow. (Complete motto, from both sides, Never Keep a Paper Dollar in Your Pocket Till Tomorrow.).

[Hard Times]

Very nice, certainly does not fit into any other category of token within Rulau at least......

 

What's it grade?

[BROADSTRUCK]

Very nice, certainly does not fit into any other category of token within Rulau at least......

 

What's it grade?

 

Rulau doesn't cover SC$1's this is after all a Satercial 39mm So-Called Dollar. It's second top pop MS63RB, but I used to own the top pop MS64RB along with two of the brass versions. I sold them a couple years along with all my U.S. Merchants to focus solely on HTT's.

[BROADSTRUCK]

1837 May Tenth "(Substitute For Shin Plasters" HT-67 / Low-48.

 

Ex: Coinsarefunshouldsellallherhardtimestokenstobroadstruckrightnow

 

 

 

[coinsarefun]

1837 May Tenth "(Substitute For Shin Plasters" HT-67 / Low-48.

 

Ex: Coinsarefunshouldsellallherhardtimestokenstobroadstruckrightnow

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I changed my mind........send it back

 

 

 

 

[BROADSTRUCK]

I changed my mind........send it back

 

[BROADSTRUCK]

It's such a small world after all... So back in late 2007 I purchased what I thought was a 1837 HT-66A MS64BN May Tenth Shin Plaster hard times token. It didn't fully thrill me for the HT-66 variety but I figured I'd keep it until another came along. Yet in early 2008 when looking at a much higher priced HTT I offered it as a tentative trade and when offered a credit towards my newp higher then what I paid so of course it was gone. Then a few weeks pass and I notice reviewing pics on my PC that NGC wrongly designated it as it was really a HT-67 which just doesn't come well struck or with trace red as it's a very crudely struck token. Yet I wasn't going to try to repurchase mine as it would have cost me dearly to do so. So this year coinsarefun purchases a raw May Tenth Shin Plaster at a local show, sent me a pm, and I instantly mention it's a HT-67. A few weeks pass and surfing the web a bit I find the token she purchased had sold raw in a Goldberg auction as a MS60. So after some consideration as I still do not own an example of this variety we negotiated a deal last week and it was sent my way. Today I was looking to see how it compared to the example I sold in 2008 and about an hour ago found the original 2007 dealers pictures (Black Template) and full slab scan which I had saved on an external hard drive. Well I almost fell out of my seat as it's the same exact token!

 

 

[Hard Times]

What goes around comes around - I hope CRF made big money on the sell back!

[Hard Times]

Here is my latest NEWP, it was purchased from Steve Hayden one of the major token vendors. Really nice with rich mint red around the devices. There are several Smith's Clock Establishment tokens with the clock obverse. This is the one of most common of these but hard to find it with mint red in a high MS grade. NGC has slabbed 15 of these in the following grades:

 

XF45 - 1

AU55 - 2

AU58 - 3

MS62RB - 1

MS63 - 6

MS64 - 2 (including this one here).

 

The 63's represent some resubmissions trying to get the 64 grade so I have heard, so not many of these exist, and given the quality of this one, it must be among the better ones out there. A small hairline scratch below C in Clock on the reverse may be all there is that keeps this from a 65, it certainly has the luster of a 65 in hand. It may also be a touch of strike weakness is the limit in grade, but since I haven't seen too many of these in hand, I can't tell if this is normal for this die variety or not. Note that the reverse appears to be just a slight bit deeper in brown and red than the obverse does - this is not the image, it really is accurate for the differences between obverse and reverse in hand.

 

Best, HT

 

 

 

 

 

[BROADSTRUCK]

It's a nice example HT (thumbs u

 

I've seen about 4 of the NGC MS63BN's and have bought and sold 2 of them.

 

As far as the only RB designated example, well I've seen that MS62 in hand too...

 

It's a stripped/skinned turd that turning all kinds of shades of fugly in the holder.

 

As far as striking weakness limiting the grade these are all crudely and I've never seen a fully struck beyond the normal average example.

[coinsarefun]

Did anyone bid or win any HTT's at the Stacks Auction today?

 

 

 

 

[Hard Times]

nah I am broke from FUN - did you win any?

 

Best, HT

[coinsarefun]

nah I am broke from FUN - did you win any?

 

Best, HT

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nope, just watching it, some went cheap, some

sold high

 

 

 

[Hard Times]

My HT-8 is now back from NGC where it went for a designation review and reholdering. The old holder was in bad shape, and the token was misplaced at a high angle to the face of the slab. Also, it was mis-attributed as HT-7. Now it is in a nice pronged holder with the correct attribution - HT-8. There are two of these in NGC holders, this one at AU58 and another at MS62. Since removal of my token to the HT-7 census there are now 3 of these at NGC and one 7a in F, VF, AU53, and AU58 for the four. These are very rare, Rulau gives it an R6 (13-30), R5 (31-75) for HT-7, and R8 (2-3) for HT-7a. The recent book on the Robert Schuman collection (The True Hard Times Tokens, M&G Publications, 2010) gives the HT-8 (Low 5b) as an R5 (hard to see this where are they all?). His MS example is stunning, raw and BROADSTRUCK, if you can believe it

 

These can be had for a very good value if one can find them. I have seen a few that are seriously scudzy, and not too many 'problem free' if such a term can be used for these. You can read about the pedigree of this example by surfing this thread and seeing what Broadstruck found about it, and you can see my earlier images in the old beat up HT-7 holder.

 

On another note, which I continue to find amazing, there are a total of 1860 HTT's in the NGC census that is for all gradeable HTT's in their slabs and of course includes resubmissions. Most in MS grades are a few $100 in cost, the rare ones like this one in AU in the upper $100s.

 

Let's compare this to (not including PCGS coins):

 

1916-D dime - 2865, 58 in AU58, price in AU58 = $11500

1909-S VDB cent - 6472, 366 in AU58, price in AU58 = $1640

1924-S Buffalo Nickel - 817, 24 in AU58, price in AU58 = $1770

 

So if you want value and rarity combined with interesting history, well, that is why I collect these.

 

Best, HT

 

[Hard Times]

This token was minted in 1900 but resembles HTT even with a date of 1837 on the obverse. Listed by Rulau in his Appendix I of his book. The reverse is the Time is Money HTT remake. 10,000 of this M19 token was struck, how many exist today? Only a few have made it into NGC holders.

 

This has to be one of the prettiest still extant. It has a booming luster under the light, with nice cartwheels. It is hard to capture the vibrancy of the luster and the right red-violet-blue toning, especially on the obverse.

 

The token was made for Peacock Jewelers in Chicago. They still exist today and in fact they are having a Valentine's sale right now:

 

http://www.cdpeacock.com/

 

[BROADSTRUCK]

Nice pics HT (thumbs u

 

1837 New York Centre Market HT-239 / Low 110

 

[Mainecents]

First Time posting. I have spent considerable time since finding this forum a few weeks ago admiring the images and reading the informative comments. Thanks to all who have participated. I'll post some images when I figure out how to.

[Hard Times]

Welcome to the forum Maincents, please post more and we look forward to your images of HTT'S!

 

Best, HT

[BROADSTRUCK]

1825 Peale's Museum, HT-303/ Low-269 / Miller NY-632, R-5/6.

 

 

The finest known specimen of this token variety which is ex: Capt. Andrew Zabriskie who’s incredible coin rarities where sold by Henry Chapman in 1909, however his family held his tokens and medals after his death in 1916 until the 1999 Sotheby’s sale at his mansion overlooking the Hudson river. This is the current Russell Rulau Plate Coin in his Standard Catalogue of Hard Times Tokens for the Copper variety which replaced the lower grade ex: John L. Roper / Herbert Oechsner specimen in Russel's earlier works. This is only one of two early die stage examples I've seen struck with a non almost fully cracked obverse die, the other being the lower grade ex: Lionel Ruddick. Struck on a large thick 34.6 mm copper planchet the date on the obverse only symbolizes the date of establishment, as this token was used during the Hard Times Era as an entrance admittance pass which sold for $10.00 seasonally and was not something set aside to be preserved for future generations.

 

Some History:

 

Rubens Peale ran his museum in the Parthenon Building across from the City Hall from 1825 until he sold out to P.T. Barnum in 1843. Peale's Museum was located at 252 Broadway, close to City Hall in Manhattan. The Museum featured an Egyptian mummy and many other historical artifacts to entertain the locals and tourists. These large entrance tokens were occasionally taken home by souvenir hunters, but most were turned in for the price of admission. Rubens Peale came from an important family, his father was the famous painter Charles Wilson Peale, and his brother Franklin Peale who became the Chief Coiner at the Philadelphia Mint

 

Andrew C. Zabriskie was born in New York City in 1853 to one of the largest real estate owning families in that city. After graduating from Columbia University, Zabriskie wold help manage the family's real estate business. He was a member of the New York National Guard from 1873 through 1897, and eventually rose to the rank of Captain. Later in life he would be known as "Captain Zabriskie" due to this service. A member of the ANS for forty-two years, Zabriskie first joined the ANS in 1874 and became a life member in 1894. He served initially as Third Vice-President from 1880-83 and then as First Vice-President from 1884-96 before finally being elected President of the ANS in 1896. He remained as President until his resignation in December 1904.In 1908, when the Society's constitution was amended to create the office of Honorary President, Zabriskie, along with Daniel Parish, Jr., was elected Honorary President for Life. Zabriskie's tenure as president was marked with a financial crisis which led Zabriskie to advocate for the merger of the ANS with the New-York Historical Society. When that proposal was rejected by the membership of the ANS, Zabriskie resigned from the presidency. He was succeeded by Archer M. Huntington. During his career, Zabriskie amassed a large collection, the most significant of which were Lincoln medals and Polish coins and medals. In 1873 he wrote A Descriptive Catalogue of the Political and Memorial Medals Struck in Honor of Abraham Lincoln which has since become the basis for those collecting Lincoln pieces. Zabriskie died on September 16, 1916.

 

I was also very fortunate as I was able to secure a matching Peale's Museum Admittance Ticket signed by Rubens Peale himself, which might actually be scarcer then the token itself.

 

[JOBESSI]

HTT & CWT are my kryptonite. Especially when they're HQ