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Conder101
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Posts posted by Conder101
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On 9/16/2023 at 7:57 AM, zadok said:
but not cost effective if they were shipping cents from other mints to include all mints in same bag.
I think it would be very cost effective. Remember the gift shops are privately run not government. So all the proprietors simply have a contact in the right area obtain a bag of cents from the back and ship them to where ever the little bags were assembled, Costs are $15 for the cents plus the shipping costs and whatever they paid someone to assemble the bags. If the sold them for 50 cents a bag revenue was $2,500. So expenses were probably around $250 to $300 and net revenue was $2,200. Sounds cost effective to me.
Wait ignore all that I goofed and figured 5,000 bags assembled not 1,000. and after reading the article sale price was 32 to 40 cents per bag so revenue was $320 to $400. Still at least break even or a small profit. Not the windfall I originally thought.
OK, red the article sold for 32 to 40 cents a bag, so gross revenue was
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On 9/14/2023 at 9:07 AM, RWB said:
All the off-metal cents, etc. were found in circulation.
Most of the 1943 coppers were found in circulation, the two most recent were from the estates of mint workers that worked at the mint in 1943. MAYBE they found them in circulation, but it seems an unlikely coincidence. As for the 1974 aluminum cents, one was supposedly dropped by a Congressman and picked up by a Capitlal worker who was told to keep it (Toven specimen) and the Smithsonian specimen was found by a congressional aide in the drawer of an outgoing Congressman's desk. I wouldn't call either of theose "in circulation". The 1974 D aluminum cent came from the estate of the Denver mint superintendent. Again not from circulation.
The court ruled that I think one or two of the Sac mules were circulation finds, but that the rest were smuggled out of the mint and are government property. I don't believe they have tried to recover them though, even though they know where they are.
- GoldFinger1969 and ldhair
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On 2/17/2023 at 10:04 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:
How come I can't get a stray Saint-Gaudens or Double Eagle collector to stroll in here.
Because there aren't that many of them.
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So you are against modern counterfeits and not contemporary ones.
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A couple more things about these coins. The letter are punched into the same locations on both the 1815 and the 1825's, the E is always over the peak of the cap, and the L is always close to star 7. The E and the L punches are the same on both the 1815 and 1825 coins. There was only one die variety in 1815 so all the punched coins are on the one variety, but in 1825 there were three die varieties but I believe all of the punched coins are all on the same variety. If they had been punched much later than 1825 there would have been a much greater chance they would have been on more than one variety.
- Henri Charriere, zadok and ldhair
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If someone came forward with several more 1913 V nickels there probably wouldn't be any problem. Just like the last two 1943 copper cents that turned up recently in the hands or family members of people that worked at the Philadelphia mint in 1943. The 1913 V nickel and the 1943 copper cents have already been accepted as being legal to hold. There was never a government pronouncement that they were government property. The 1933 double eagle, the 1974 aluminum cents have been declared government property so they are automatically considered "stolen" even before any explanation can be brought forth to explain how they were acquired. They are "Guilty until proven innocent", and you can't prove them innocent because they have already been declared guilty.
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On 9/8/2023 at 11:30 AM, Sandon said:
The image of Lincoln also doesn't appear to match that of a cent from the 1965-67 era, which was more spread out. The lettering is also more distant from the rim than it would be on a 1965.
BINGO, the separation of the letters from the rim and the definition of the bust indicate the coin has to be 1969 or later.
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The first 10 pfennig is definitely a doubled die not die deterioration doubling. As a general rule though error coins are not widely collected outside the US. If it is cataloged it would probably be in a reference that was specific to Germany and published there for German collectors.
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You should probably talk to NGC customer service before you send them in. You can probably get them slabbed as GENUINE, but probably not with the El Cazador provenance. They MIGHT accept the COA but you need to confirm that with them first.. And you probably won't get the COA back.
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I too thought the AI coin had a very Dan Carr feel to it.
On 9/7/2023 at 12:28 AM, EagleRJO said:Hmmm, the US mint engaging the services of a "counterfeiter" to design coins for them,
The date on the letter is from 1999 and that was before he started making his "counterfeits".
On 9/7/2023 at 12:28 AM, EagleRJO said:PCGS and ANACS certifying and slabbing his "counterfeits".
You'll have to take that up with PCGS and ANACS.
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On 8/20/2023 at 10:33 PM, powermad5000 said:
I own no counterfeits and if I did, I would destroy them.
Powermad, some counterfeits are collectible though. Would you destroy a Machins Mills piece? Contemporary counterfeit British half Pence made here in the US by the same firm that was making coinage for the states. They are definitely an historical artifact, and they can be quite valuable. Would you destroy one if it cam into your hands?
I own many contemporary counterfeit Conder tokens that were actually used in commerce. I wouldn't destroy them.
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While some Conder tokens may have traveled over here it would just be a small number and not any organized shipment of tokens (Closest connection would be the Talbot Alum & Lee tokens of Philadelphia which were produced in England by the same firms that were producing Conder tokens and the those dies can be found muled with dies used for other Conder tokens. The Conder tokens didn't begin until 1787 and most of them were struck in the 1793 - 1797 period by which time out mint was already in operation. There were some pieces that were struck in an attempt to secure a coinage contract to produce our coinage. If you look at the Washington pieces in the redbook many of those are actually Conder tokens and the reverse dies were muled with other Conder token dies as well. Other Conder tokens listed in the Redbook include the Kentucky Cent, the Theatre at New York token (The reverse is a Conder token die) and the Franklin Press token.
As to the GTT (Genuine Trade Tokens ) which is what I mainly collect, I only collect those from the English counties and I don't collect all the edge varieties just the obv/rev combinations. There are 658 different GTT tokens of which I have 558 of them.
Overall, including edge varieties, there are very close to 5,000 Conder token varieties. The most complete collection I knew of was Robinson S Brown's collection. He has something like 4,800 of them. I know of a couple other collections in the 3,000 piece range.
Even after all this time there are still new discoveries that can be made, I have discovered four new obv/rev die pairings and at least two known varieties with new edge varieites.
There are many ways you can collect the tokens. My first goal as just one token from each of the 39 English counties. About 35 of them are pretty easy, three of them are tough, one you are almost certainly not going to get. Leicestershire, There are only 18 tokens from that county. Not 18 varieties, 18 tokens total from two different varieties. You could pick a county and try to get a token from each of the cities that issued a token. There are many individual "series that a popularly collected such as the tokens for Pidcock Exhibition. Pidcock had a menagerie and produced tokens with many of the animals on them and there are various pairing obv/rev of these animals and the were issued as both half pence and farthings. There are probably better than 30 differnt Pidcock tokens. Another series I collect are what are called Skidmore's Churches and Gates. Skidmore was a prolific issuer of tokens for various things adn one of them was a series of tokens that pictured every Chuch within, and every Gate through the old Walled City of London (The Old city of London was the original walled city located within todays London. It covers one square mile..) There are 128 churches and gates in the series, I have over 80 of them. They are very nice and with issued in proof or prooflike condition. Something else I collect are the Lady Godivia tokens from the city of Coventry in Warwickshire. Everyone knows the story of Lady Godiva, will in 1792 the city produced alarge numbers of tokens with the city arms on one side and Lady Godiva on the other. They were very popular and were widely used. This attracted the attention of counterfeiters and they produced their own tokens in 1793. The problem was the 1792 issue was enough for the city and they didn't make any 1793 tokens. So all 1792 tokens are genuine, and all 1793 tokens are contemporary counterfeits. I have all of the 1792 vareites and I lack one 1793 variety. (The standard reference Dalton & Hamer catalogs both genuine and contemporary counterfeit Conder tokens.) There are many other ways or series you can collect in the Conders.
In circulated condition the Conders as still relatively cheap, but not like they were when I started seriously collecting them back in 1997. Back then uncirculated common tokens could be had for $20 apiece. Today I doubt you could get an uncirculated for under $200 to $250 dollars. (a bit pricy, but if they were Unc large cent from the same era you would be looking in mid five figures.) But circulated pieces can still be had for $30 to $50 dollars. I wish I had bought more back then, or had started buying Conders when I first started collecting. Back them Unc's were $2 each and mint red coins were $3
- Fenntucky Mike, Hoghead515, zadok and 2 others
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On 8/21/2023 at 10:07 PM, zadok said:
additionally, why these dimes r continually referenced as proofs is not easily substantiated either, i have personally observed 5 of the 9 mentioned n none closely approximate proof coinage.
Describing them as "Proofs" is a relatively recent thing. In older sales (probably 1960's or earlier) they were not called proofs. The same was true with the 1913 V Nickels. They all used to be considered business strike quality as well, though sometimes called proof like.
On 8/22/2023 at 8:06 AM, zadok said:.hence, why 15 r unaccounted
Flynn accounts for most of them as being destroyed in various assayings. It's been awhile since I've reead his book so I can't be more precise.
- zadok and GoldFinger1969
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On 8/24/2023 at 8:52 PM, VKurtB said:What amazes me is the newer collectors who can’t wait to submit low value coins. What the ….? They have no idea what their coins are, and even less of an idea how much it costs
That was one of the reasons why it was originally authorized dealers only, the dealers could weed out the coins that shouldn't be submitted thereby saving the collectors some money, and the graders from wasting time on them. But no the collectors HAD to be able to do their own submissions much to the great profit for the TPG's.
Part of the problems today is that there is so much emphasis on the fact that coins need to be graded to have any value that newbies seem to think it is something that HAS to be done with every coin.
- Hoghead515, ldhair and VKurtB
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On 8/24/2023 at 1:16 PM, Sandon said:
The redemption of Trade dollars at face value, which is apparently referred to in the 1898 letter, was only allowed for a period of six months under the 1887 law that also repealed the Treasury's authority to issue Trade dollars.
And if I remember correctly only unmutilated coins ( meaning no chopmarks) could be redeemed.
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On 8/24/2023 at 3:20 PM, zadok said:
the only coins not allowed to be counterfeited r the current circulating coins of china.
Anything after 1949 when the CCP took over the country.
- Henri Charriere and zadok
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On 8/14/2023 at 4:56 PM, VKurtB said:
Even worse are "unopened, still sealed" proof sets. THEY NEVER WERE SEALED by the Mint!
The only time they were sealed by the mint was if you purchased a single set they would sometimes seal it, address it, and mail it to you directly. I have seen a few sets like that. But yes the VAST majority of the sets were never sealed by the Mint.
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It was always interesting to see that people thought the US Mint bought coins.
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On 9/3/2023 at 6:10 PM, EagleRJO said:
It may be altered or a reproduction as it's a silver like off-color.
Cleaned with some rubbing. The coppernickel alloy was whiteish before it would start toning. The silvery color is probably a hint of what they looked like newly struck.
On 9/3/2023 at 6:19 PM, Superman rockstar said:isn't there supposed to be a shield on the back top the coin?
The shield was added (and the wreath changed) in 1860.
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On 8/26/2023 at 7:57 PM, Kassi24 said:
coins they were talking about that were worth $2000 were the 20 upside down dollar coins released in 1989
They were rotated reverse Bicentennial of Congress commemorative dollars.
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On 8/31/2023 at 2:13 PM, Coinbuf said:
Weight will solve this question,
Weight will NOT solver the question as coppernickel clad and 40% silver halve have a HUGE overlap in tolerance weight. It would tell a 40% from a 90% but a leftover planchet after almost 3 years would really not be believable.
Until the edge starts to oxidize/tone after some handling the color difference doesn't really show much on higher grade or Unc pieces..
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On 8/27/2023 at 6:35 PM, Stockwiz78 said:
when I get a pro to verify my findings
When you get them slabbed by any of the top four grading services we will happily concede we were wrong. But I feel very safe in saying we will NEVER have to do so.
I have to wonder if he has the same kind of success picking stocks.
Saw the better date pictures... 100% large date.
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On 8/21/2023 at 11:22 PM, powermad5000 said:
I may be classified as a weirdo for this, but I keep every one of these I get in cash register change.
If you are a weirdo then there are an awful lot of you out there. I've know a lot of people that keep every one they get.
On 8/28/2023 at 3:51 AM, powermad5000 said:I was unable to find one with a similar attribute. With a Denver mintage of 860,118,839 quarters, I didn't think I would.
Not surprising as they would have used around 1,200 rev dies.
1815, 1825 E and L counterstamped quarters
in US, World, and Ancient Coins
Posted
They do, but it is VERY slight, not like what you would normally expect. Many early description of these coins say there is no damage to the reverse but the ones I have examined do have very slight deformation on the reverse. Early writers speculated that tey were done at the mint and done while the coins were still in the die. That would support the entire surface of the reverse and prevent the rev damage. I don't believe they were done at the mint, but placing them in a discarded rev die could be a possibility. But if you didn't have the die they came from I would expect damage ofa different type. Unfortunately i had not considered that when I had the chance to examine them so I didn't look for other damage.