JKK

CB's right. To amplify, a die state is the phase of its working life that we can see in the coin's details. For example, I have a 1794 cent that has a crack through the 4. It is middle die state; early die state would be when the die was new, and late die state was probably near its point of failure. Concentric cracking around the lettering on 1800s dies is by no means uncommon. I'm not sure whether there is a book on all the die states of all the cracks, or if anyone would bother since most of them don't add much of a premium.

We try to get people to read past posts, but not very hard. For one thing, every coin (or fake coin) is unique on some level, and most of the newbie posts are "I found this Rare Valuable [parking lot] Coin in my change and was wondering if I can now retire?" While they typically can't, we need to see the coin, and that means a thread and posted pics and some patient responses. This also applies to 1776 Continental Dollars, replated Lincolns, and other categories full of cattle's_solid_wastes. Yeah, we could tell them to please look at all the hideous fakes and replicas we've seen over the years, but in the end, there's nothing definitive but for knowledgeable people to look at the coin.

That's not to say that we don't gain respect for people who show that they have done a little reading. It makes a lot more sense than the persons_with_braincases_of_bone_matter who post sale items outside the clearly marked marketplace, or who post piles of semi-readable more_bovine_solid_wastes trying to tell us how smart and clever they are and why we're therefore all chowderheads and "playa hatahs." (All lies. I like the beach.) I know that I react differently when someone says:
"Hello. After looking over the forum and searching a little, I'm almost sure this example of a 1776 Continental Dollar is phony. Can you please confirm this for me?"
Than:
"wussup peepz my bampaw left me this rare 1976 contenental dollar i wanna no what its worth there very rare i no that also dont be a playa hatah i was muged on my way to ur 4um and bad peepz stole my speling ability and all my punktuation so its not my fault if this is hard to read then again nothin in my world is ever my fault cuz thats just how i roll now ima post this 4 times here and in sum other 4ums on account of i think this improves chances u peepz will help the n00b oction it so i can retire 2 a condom minimum"
And no, none of that is meant to imply anything at all about ethnic background. This garbage transcends all backgrounds. Stoopid and selfish are universal constants.

We try to get people to read past posts, but not very hard. For one thing, every coin (or fake coin) is unique on some level, and most of the newbie posts are "I found this Rare Valuable [parking lot] Coin in my change and was wondering if I can now retire?" While they typically can't, we need to see the coin, and that means a thread and posted pics and some patient responses. This also applies to 1776 Continental Dollars, replated Lincolns, and other categories full of cattle's_solid_wastes. Yeah, we could tell them to please look at all the hideous fakes and replicas we've seen over the years, but in the end, there's nothing definitive but for knowledgeable people to look at the coin.

That's not to say that we don't gain respect for people who show that they have done a little reading. It makes a lot more sense than the persons_with_braincases_of_bone_matter who post sale items outside the clearly marked marketplace, or who post piles of semi-readable more_bovine_solid_wastes trying to tell us how smart and clever they are and why we're therefore all chowderheads and "playa hatahs." (All lies. I like the beach.) I know that I react differently when someone says:
"Hello. After looking over the forum and searching a little, I'm almost sure this example of a 1776 Continental Dollar is phony. Can you please confirm this for me?"
Than:
"wussup peepz my bampaw left me this rare 1976 contenental dollar i wanna no what its worth there very rare i no that also dont be a playa hatah i was muged on my way to ur 4um and bad peepz stole my speling ability and all my punktuation so its not my fault if this is hard to read then again nothin in my world is ever my fault cuz thats just how i roll now ima post this 4 times here and in sum other 4ums on account of i think this improves chances u peepz will help the n00b oction it so i can retire 2 a condom minimum"
And no, none of that is meant to imply anything at all about ethnic background. This garbage transcends all backgrounds. Stoopid and selfish are universal constants.

CB's right. To amplify, a die state is the phase of its working life that we can see in the coin's details. For example, I have a 1794 cent that has a crack through the 4. It is middle die state; early die state would be when the die was new, and late die state was probably near its point of failure. Concentric cracking around the lettering on 1800s dies is by no means uncommon. I'm not sure whether there is a book on all the die states of all the cracks, or if anyone would bother since most of them don't add much of a premium.

We try to get people to read past posts, but not very hard. For one thing, every coin (or fake coin) is unique on some level, and most of the newbie posts are "I found this Rare Valuable [parking lot] Coin in my change and was wondering if I can now retire?" While they typically can't, we need to see the coin, and that means a thread and posted pics and some patient responses. This also applies to 1776 Continental Dollars, replated Lincolns, and other categories full of cattle's_solid_wastes. Yeah, we could tell them to please look at all the hideous fakes and replicas we've seen over the years, but in the end, there's nothing definitive but for knowledgeable people to look at the coin.

That's not to say that we don't gain respect for people who show that they have done a little reading. It makes a lot more sense than the persons_with_braincases_of_bone_matter who post sale items outside the clearly marked marketplace, or who post piles of semi-readable more_bovine_solid_wastes trying to tell us how smart and clever they are and why we're therefore all chowderheads and "playa hatahs." (All lies. I like the beach.) I know that I react differently when someone says:
"Hello. After looking over the forum and searching a little, I'm almost sure this example of a 1776 Continental Dollar is phony. Can you please confirm this for me?"
Than:
"wussup peepz my bampaw left me this rare 1976 contenental dollar i wanna no what its worth there very rare i no that also dont be a playa hatah i was muged on my way to ur 4um and bad peepz stole my speling ability and all my punktuation so its not my fault if this is hard to read then again nothin in my world is ever my fault cuz thats just how i roll now ima post this 4 times here and in sum other 4ums on account of i think this improves chances u peepz will help the n00b oction it so i can retire 2 a condom minimum"
And no, none of that is meant to imply anything at all about ethnic background. This garbage transcends all backgrounds. Stoopid and selfish are universal constants.

I don't see any doubling of any sort. I do see some hard impacts that have mooshed letters in spots.

Since it's not, there is no reason for anyone to research this. If you want to spend your time doing so, I've read of the real thing described as a Shekel of the Sanctuary.

Since it's not, there is no reason for anyone to research this. If you want to spend your time doing so, I've read of the real thing described as a Shekel of the Sanctuary.

That's pretty good. AR Quinarius, Severus Alexander, laureate draped bust right, obverse IMP CM AVR SEV ALEXAND AVG; Virtus standing R holding spear, hand on shield, VIRTVS AVG, no ex, 222-228 CE. ERIC II 405, 397); RIC 183, Sear 7958.

We try to get people to read past posts, but not very hard. For one thing, every coin (or fake coin) is unique on some level, and most of the newbie posts are "I found this Rare Valuable [parking lot] Coin in my change and was wondering if I can now retire?" While they typically can't, we need to see the coin, and that means a thread and posted pics and some patient responses. This also applies to 1776 Continental Dollars, replated Lincolns, and other categories full of cattle's_solid_wastes. Yeah, we could tell them to please look at all the hideous fakes and replicas we've seen over the years, but in the end, there's nothing definitive but for knowledgeable people to look at the coin.

That's not to say that we don't gain respect for people who show that they have done a little reading. It makes a lot more sense than the persons_with_braincases_of_bone_matter who post sale items outside the clearly marked marketplace, or who post piles of semi-readable more_bovine_solid_wastes trying to tell us how smart and clever they are and why we're therefore all chowderheads and "playa hatahs." (All lies. I like the beach.) I know that I react differently when someone says:
"Hello. After looking over the forum and searching a little, I'm almost sure this example of a 1776 Continental Dollar is phony. Can you please confirm this for me?"
Than:
"wussup peepz my bampaw left me this rare 1976 contenental dollar i wanna no what its worth there very rare i no that also dont be a playa hatah i was muged on my way to ur 4um and bad peepz stole my speling ability and all my punktuation so its not my fault if this is hard to read then again nothin in my world is ever my fault cuz thats just how i roll now ima post this 4 times here and in sum other 4ums on account of i think this improves chances u peepz will help the n00b oction it so i can retire 2 a condom minimum"
And no, none of that is meant to imply anything at all about ethnic background. This garbage transcends all backgrounds. Stoopid and selfish are universal constants.

And that's fine. If they want to nail those colors to their masts I'll make my decisions partly on that basis. Their right to do so; mine to keep moving and spend elsewhere.

And that's why they live there, and I live here, and I'm never going there, and they're probably never coming here.

Faiz Kass-Elias of Rhaesana Numismatics: knowledgeable, fair, honest, a true gentleman. Scott Loos from North Bend (I think); always an excellent selection, taciturn but well respected. Brian Jenner of Coin Cradle, Kennewick, WA; was my local dealer there for many years and I still see him at our coin show in Portland. We always have some good-natured back-and-forth as I'm a Husky and he's a staunch Cougar, but he's one of the PNW's most respected numismatists and honest as the day is long. I also see Dan Templeman of Coin Exchange of Treasure Valley (east Boise), who was my local go-to when I lived there. Locally, my mentor Larry Gaye doesn't sell a lot of coins, but when he's willing to do so he has my undivided attention. Expert in Byzantine and ancient coinage, and a classy man in every way. Failla Numismatics is a local show/online dealership, father/son, that does a great job and I'm always glad to see. Same for Bruce Wonder of Bellingham, a professor emeritus at WWU and someone with a huge offering of world coins. Smart attributor, too, and a genteel fellow.
A lot of people don't know how to ask for discounts. The mantra is always "it doesn't hurt to ask." The hell it doesn't--it can easily offend dealers--but there's a ninja trick. First, pick out a bunch of coins--at least two or more. More than one coin gives the dealer some reason to think of a discount as a volume discount. Mentally total them so you know what the retail should be. Then I ask: "What would the total be for these?" Ostensibly it sounds like I'm just asking them do do some addition; basically all my dealers know exactly what I'm asking there, but since I haven't directly asked, it gives them space to be the good guy. I compare that total to the retail total; if I'm getting 10% off or better, I figure I'm doing okay. I always have cash or check, because dealers hate credit cards due to the fee. This is especially key where the coins are close to melt, and the fee would stretch the margin very thinly.
It might surprise people about the checks, but I can write a check at virtually any coin dealer in the PNW. Not because I'm in any way famous or special, but because I can establish in conversation that I'm in the local club (at the show, of course, this is obvious; I'm wearing a badge for crissakes). We'll know some people in common, and they'll probe a bit in that regard--as they should, just to satisfy themselves that I'm not full of bologna. The logic is that no one is a big enough insufficiently_thoughtful_person to utterly wreck his reputation by dropping a rubber check on a dealer down in Reedsport over $75 worth of coins, and it would only take one bad check to mark me lousy for good. That being the case, they are typically happy to take a personal check; it saves them the Visa fees and I might spend more money from the checkbook than I have in cash on hand. We're going to Bend this weekend, I'm definitely going shopping, and I'm hoping to find some good stuff. I don't personally know the dealers there, but that won't matter. I soon will. Whether that'll lead to some buying is up to them.

I've had it throw up and lose my posts as well. It also logs me out every few days, at which time I don't bother to log back in unless/until I find something that really needs a reply.

Let's take my 1896 proof Barber half (mintage 762). Rarest coin I own. Survival estimate from PCGS is 675 in all grades. Is it reasonable to suppose that one will get less rare? I am not sure how one could project that. The TPG thinks that maybe 85-90% of them have survived, but every time one gets hairlined (like mine) or otherwise has a calamity, the nicer ones at least get a little rarer. If PCGS is right, the only thing that could make them less rare is the discovery of several dozen that theoretically could be in hiding. I think it far likelier those have been lost, damaged, or otherwise taken out of the population for good. Probably every year another one somewhere becomes a casualty. It's not that all coins become rarer, because as your analysis has shown, some become a little more common. It's that the overall trend is likelier in the direction of rarity.
So I guess the reasonable takeaway is that it probably doesn't make that much sense to buy a coin hoping its rarity could increase within one's life timeframe. It could actually decrease. Brings to mind J.P. Morgan's eternal response to requests for market forecasts: "The market will fluctuate." He was never wrong about that.

It's oversimplified. Some coins will become less rare as examples turn up. Others will become more rare (in some cases specific to condition) with natural disasters, improper storage, just bad luck. He didn't say anything that was basically wrong, though he did make the mistake of alienating a prospective customer. That's one of the big problems with coin collecting and coin clubs: So many of the people one meets are smug, grumpy old cynics who rejoice to have a hobby where they can check their social graces and customer service notions at the door.

Let's take my 1896 proof Barber half (mintage 762). Rarest coin I own. Survival estimate from PCGS is 675 in all grades. Is it reasonable to suppose that one will get less rare? I am not sure how one could project that. The TPG thinks that maybe 85-90% of them have survived, but every time one gets hairlined (like mine) or otherwise has a calamity, the nicer ones at least get a little rarer. If PCGS is right, the only thing that could make them less rare is the discovery of several dozen that theoretically could be in hiding. I think it far likelier those have been lost, damaged, or otherwise taken out of the population for good. Probably every year another one somewhere becomes a casualty. It's not that all coins become rarer, because as your analysis has shown, some become a little more common. It's that the overall trend is likelier in the direction of rarity.
So I guess the reasonable takeaway is that it probably doesn't make that much sense to buy a coin hoping its rarity could increase within one's life timeframe. It could actually decrease. Brings to mind J.P. Morgan's eternal response to requests for market forecasts: "The market will fluctuate." He was never wrong about that.

Let's take my 1896 proof Barber half (mintage 762). Rarest coin I own. Survival estimate from PCGS is 675 in all grades. Is it reasonable to suppose that one will get less rare? I am not sure how one could project that. The TPG thinks that maybe 85-90% of them have survived, but every time one gets hairlined (like mine) or otherwise has a calamity, the nicer ones at least get a little rarer. If PCGS is right, the only thing that could make them less rare is the discovery of several dozen that theoretically could be in hiding. I think it far likelier those have been lost, damaged, or otherwise taken out of the population for good. Probably every year another one somewhere becomes a casualty. It's not that all coins become rarer, because as your analysis has shown, some become a little more common. It's that the overall trend is likelier in the direction of rarity.
So I guess the reasonable takeaway is that it probably doesn't make that much sense to buy a coin hoping its rarity could increase within one's life timeframe. It could actually decrease. Brings to mind J.P. Morgan's eternal response to requests for market forecasts: "The market will fluctuate." He was never wrong about that.

It's oversimplified. Some coins will become less rare as examples turn up. Others will become more rare (in some cases specific to condition) with natural disasters, improper storage, just bad luck. He didn't say anything that was basically wrong, though he did make the mistake of alienating a prospective customer. That's one of the big problems with coin collecting and coin clubs: So many of the people one meets are smug, grumpy old cynics who rejoice to have a hobby where they can check their social graces and customer service notions at the door.

Two things. It's great that we have weights and diameters, so that part is fine. We usually have to tell people that; great job there.
First, please crop them closely and repost them. If that doesn't result in large images, then please retake and crop them so that we get sizable images. I can work with the lighting issues if I have bigger pics to work with. The lighting issues make copper and bronze coins harder to read, because the patinated metal is naturally dark, but larger shots will compensate.
Second, please give me some idea of where they were found/acquired, and where you think they might originate. I've got a fair library of ancients references, but it's really nice to have some idea where to begin. The world of ancient coinage is a big one spread over many cultures. Right now the only thing I can say just about for sure is that they do not relate to the Islamic world, which I suspect you already know.

There are three questions here, and a resultant question.
Is that a real error with extra LIBERTY letters? Hard to say. That could have been faked. I'm having a pretty hard time imagining how the mint could have done that, but maybe I just don't know all the ways the mint can f-bomb up a coin.
Is the coin authentic? Probably (at least in original form). But...
Is the coin altered? It is certainly replated. If someone tried to fake up a mint error, I can see them replating it to help cover up the traces.
Therefore:
Is the coin something you'd want to put any energy and money into? Nope nope nope.
So you did right by having the dealer retain it, given that he obviously is clueless about these coins. This coin should have set off multiple red flags in any dealer's first examination, and he definitely had zero business actually putting it up for auction unless he labeled it as replated. If he doesn't know how to tell that a steelie has been replated (very common), he needs to stop selling them until he knows more about his merch than his customers.

I doubt anyone who found the original joke obscure would gain any more from that, and would probably take it as confirmation that one was being made sport of, but I accept that you didn't intend that.
In case it wasn't very clear, I was not speaking to any one person so much as to the general group. This board has a habit of confusing native speakers' willful semiliteracy (in which they will still understand jokes even if they sound dumber than a bag of wet nickels) with non-native speakers' forlorn attempts to make sense of native speakers' sentence fragments, slang, and other natural colloquialisms. It's been going on for years and might decrease if people begin to see the world through someone else's eyes. I've seen it so very many times.
Basic question in broken English. Receives wiseacre one-liner from someone impressed with himself. Decides is being mocked and gets defensive. Makes self target in process. Now gets a hailstorm of smart remarks mixed with some "calm down, take a joke" advisements. If we were as considerate about ESL speakers' English as we would like them to be if we were trying to be understood in their native languages, none of the negativity needs to arise. We can save that for the donkeys who post parking lot coins, get patient guidance, reject it, and fight with people demanding confirmation of their errors. Or the ones who claim racism when it's obvious no one knows what color they are until they reveal it. These are patterns one sees here over years and they repeat themselves. I'm encouraging people to break some of the more toxic ones. Message boards that let toxic patterns flourish become virtual street gangs bullying anyone who wanders into their turf just because they can. I've seen signs of that here at times and I think we have smart enough people here (and those who aren't too smart are at least generally kind-hearted) to reflect and adjust if they choose. No one's really brought it up. Okay, I brought it up. People can now do as they will do.
Maybe, too, having taken studied seven spoken foreign languages in my life and volunteering as an ESL classroom aide, I have more empathy than others for that guy right there. Fair enough--but I would like to see that empathy spread a little.

That's not showing from the way people are reacting to the reaction. I also thought it was obvious enough, but if it wasn't, someone needed to speak up. I've seen too many threads on here spiral downward due to simple misunderstandings and ill-advised wisecracks that take no account of anyone but oneself. This doesn't need to happen if perfectly intelligent people will also apply kindness and wisdom of the sort that I've been fortunate enough to experience all the times I've tried to be understood in a second language.

Pretty sure the OP is writing in English as a second language, and it's easy for fairly dopey jokes to sail past and even look like deliberate mockery. I am not sure why that hasn't occurred to anyone here, but it's worth considering.

Appreciated. In that case the fine point resolves to, if it's apparent that our English (including your perfectly fluent collegiate English, which shows no signs of ESL at all) kidding flies over someone's head, let us work to be as considerate as we can in that regard. We will be a better group for it.