Henri Charriere

This post deserves an honorable mention and is worth repeating!

[Quite frankly, (yes, I have checked) since when can anyone "explicitly ask[ing]" (that is, demand) an elevation in grade? It just isn't done. Read your submission paper!] <see how much knowledge can be gleaned from reviewing old threads? I was able to narrow down the very genesis of the dispute with this member, to a single day right before Christmas 2020, after which everyone else piled on and the gentleman fled the premises.>

[Others far more influential and direct than I am tried to get to the bottom of these allegations, but nearly two years later I am still scratching my head.]

In point of fact, as noted by @VKurtB speaking from 2022, nothing is forever or final until Roger says it is speaking ex cathedra, but you wouldn't know it because you took a powder for parts unknown. 😉

There is an insider aspect to this. Question: If I, a person one-time hotel magnate Leona M. Helmsley (deceased) referred to dismissely as one of "the little people," i.e., people who pay taxes, were to be so bold as to ask a TPGS the question you asked, should I reasonably expect to get a response?

@1946Hamm, Welcome back! Regarding your lovely tchotchkes (just pulling your leg here) would you permit me to ask, on the specs side, the fineness and percentage of silver in each of these? Are we talking 2 troy, and 16+ troy ozs.? [The face values indicated suggest otherwise.]

I agree. The OP had, to borrow a phrase from former VP Agnew (1970) "more than [his] fair share of the nattering nabobs of negativism." So much so, I feel he was very brave to even suggest resubmission in the face of an unrelenting onslaught from more experienced hands including at least one grader. Inconclusive photos [to viewers] notwithstanding, all agree the OP was in the best position to view his coin, in hand, literally with the best source of light. [Truth be told, I would have blinked and questioned whether my own "lying eyes," would prevail over the judgment of others.] In no wise, if my request for attribution had been denied, would I have been able to summon the courage to face those I could expect would pepper me with stinging, I told you so's! This was a remarkable feat both in resubmitting and sharing. Again, well done, @MatthewDM11! Very well done!!!

And Big Hands!

[There is, but your name is not on it.]

I have come across some additional interesting facts related to this tragedy... There is another Herndon, this one in PA.; Captain Herndon's daughter married the future President Chester A. Arthur; and the bell from the ship was donated to the U.S. Naval Academy just a few months ago this year! One of the more fascinating stories I read as recounted in Gary Kinder's book, "Ship of Gold...," was an account of two passengers in the ocean at the height of the hurricane and one, realizing he was not going to make it, passing "a silver cup" to the other with instructions he deliver it, if at all possible, to someone in the Northeast. That man, not only survived, but saw to it the dying man's wishes were honored and the cup today resides in a museum. [My recollection was refreshed with presentation of the "hoard" for sale, but no longer possessing the book, I do not recall the details. However, I do recall the survivor was Black and wondered whether, having landed presumably in a Southern state----the ship went down off the coast of South Carolina, he may have encountered any difficulties in traversing to a Northern state (with gold of his own and a silver cup). Riveting story with no parallel I can think of!]

If I can just strike the right balance between being reasonable and displaying chutzpah, I can bring myself to suggest something to you no one else on this thread has. Rightly or wrongly, I feel as a young new collector you are wading through unseen rip currents in uncharted waters. Odd coins may be interesting, but as someone new to the hobby, you leave yourself wide open to practiced predators who have an edge on you. Will you run to this Forum each and every time you encounter a questionable explanation for a coin whose basic minting mechanisms you do not understand? I believe it best to understand common circulation coins and the production process first before moving onto more complex examples which I myself do not know the first thing about. Why? Because like anything else in life, I view errors, i.e., mistakes, as deficits or defects. Obviously, not everyone feels the same way, but those who don't hone up on this area of the hobby, some so much so, they are recognized and acclaimed for their expertise. Learn first, then buy. One thing to bear in mind I learned from a fellow member: you may have something scarce, or even unique----one-of-a-kind, but absent demand no significant value attaches. One more thing, as there are no chaperones available to guide you, stick to authorized dealers or well-known, reputable firms, with a proven track record of success as reflected in numismatic resources and reviews.

[In the very last photo, coming in at PP#4, directly behind Ms. Walking Liberty, may be observed an apparition of a man panning for gold, facial features clear as day: head, eyes, mouth, firearm holstered on right side resting on right leg, cane propped across his left... I would not want to speculate as to why the noted engraver placed it on this coin. (Hint: to improve your viewing experience, "hold" photo from a distance of not less than one foot.)]

[Side note: Any way you look at it, the NGC turn-around on this high-stakes highly-graded resubmission for attribution consideration, was very good by any measure, post-crest pandemic: within thirty (30) days, from the date the OP posted his topic question, resubmitted his coin, to receiving it back in the mail, safe and sound!]

As members may have heard, the contents of the "Purser's safe," recovered some eight years ago from the floor of the Atlantic in the vicinity of the S.S. CENTRAL AMERICA, has been inventoried, prettied up, and is now on sale. You, too, can own California gold fractionals----many the finest known, and the principals from whom they can be obtained have even set up their own website, called, what else...FinestKnown.com. You can even speak to a "shipwreck specialist," at 888-300-4004. So who's gold was this? The passengers. A recitation of the salient facts includes: 1857, off the Carolinas, 2-1/2 tons of gold, over 450 lost souls and their personal treasures, a little over 100 gold 25-cent, 50-cent, and $1.00 gold pieces and gold dust, dubbed a "hoard" by newly-minted numismaspeaking promoters. As I recall, from reading the book, "Ship of Gold in the Deep Blue Sea," a city in Virginia, Herndon, was named after the captain who piloted the boat. So what's the status of the gentleman who led the effort to recover the gold? Last word (unless anyone heard differently) is he was in jail for the past six years for contempt, that is, refusing to speak about the whereabouts of a sizeable amount of the gold treasures investors claim he has knowledge of. [Source: "CoinWorld," October 11, 2022.]

Look at the embezelment on the obverse: gorgeous, too. Sorry the Indian got flattened.

I have a PRELIMINARY FINDING, but have been stopped dead in my tracks, figuratively speaking, by a member who has a presence here, and a commanding profile over there having racked up over 20 years of frequent-flier cross-migration miles and badges and likes and this and that... I am beginning to sound like Roseanne Roseannadana. It is very difficult to render an assessment on a site evidently inhabited in great part by people I have engaged, and continue to engage here. Here's what I will say, unreservedly: For me to dismiss a site as a "scam" would be akin to denigrating the character of each and every member who has spent, and continues to spend, a great deal of time, intermittently or not, shuttling between sites. I am not prepared to do that. Unfortunately, for me, in view of my airy, and at times flippant manner, if I were to rule in any way other than, "allegation unfounded," I will have destroyed what little credibility and reputation I am reputed to have left. 🐓: Just a moment, Q! This is not a multiple choice question... Q.A.: No, Ricky, no... It's not a scam. (An awful lot of sound biting going on, but that's just the way people "talk" nowadays.) [Before I go... anybody know if it is physically possible to grasp what appear to be two basketballs, in outstretched arms, palms down?] 🤔

To the OP: In the wake of the deafening silence erupting from some quarters----Ricky called it right, but he's only a 🐓----I am delighted things worked out for you. I never for one minute (okay, 37 seconds) believed you made the wrong call in deciding to resubmit, but like "Jeopardy James," you went all-in and were amply rewarded for your assessment and "investment." (And you kept your word! ) Good for you!

This is a tough one... Any way we can "see" the coin? Is it listed somewhere on the web? If so, can you provide a reference or link? A part of me wants to take a quick look-see. Interestingly, I have paid for two or more coins from European concerns paid with USD converted, not to euros, but CA dollars, and neither (or none) were encapsulated by a Canadian TPGS. Adding yet another grading service to the mix of variables to consider would only heighten my concerns. Fact is, irrespective of grading service, the only overriding point to base any buying decision on----and I only learned this after I compiled my collection, is the distiction a member made between "sight-seen" and "sight-unseen" purchases. Oddly, that member maintained a purchase of any product qualifies as sight-seen if the individual or concern you are buying from (logically, sight-unseen) has a formal written policy making returns possible. I would urge you to take this into consideration! If there is a NO RETURNS policy, it does not matter how anyone feels about a service which, at base, offers you only an opinion. Bear in mind, only a member who has submitted multiple CCCS slabs to NGC for cross-grading would be in a position to share his/her experiences, but how many of those would you need to reliably base a decision on? 🐓

"Not as long as I have anything to say about it... DOCTOR!"

@Oldhoopster: [No disrespect intended. The phrase, You opened the door, counselor!, as used here means, IMHO, you committed a grievous error when you, not only responded to a mischievous member's reply, featuring a talking rooster (for heaven's sake) but asked him a question! Seriously, who does that? [No, no, this is a rhetorical question.] 🤔

No, sir, I would not think of depriving you of the pleasure of answering questions about----what was that word Coinbuf used, Ricky? 🐓: U N I C O R N. ----right, unicorns. P.S. You opened the door, counselor!

🐓: You were warned about your gratuitous wordsmithing, Q, now you've spread your contagion to Roger! Q.A.: Sorry. 😉

🐓: Is there anything you can say to brighten things up a little, Q? Q.A.: Yes, of course. Why don't we abandon the paternity test approach, and just celebrate the fact that this is a lovely example of a 90% silver half dollar, and leave it at that.

I will take judicial note of that.

[I only regret I was unable to explain to my wife why I was ROFLOL on the bus after reading your comment!]