powermad5000

In the future, please include clear photos of both sides of the entire coin in addition to the areas in question, but I am in agreement with Coinbuf. Another modern era strike doubling.

You can use this as a reference as for details.

VAM-1AE2 is not listed in the NGC variety plus section for a 1921 D, so I don't know how widely recognized it is. I agree with Sandon and believe the coin to have been cleaned. As far as details I would say if submitted the coin would return as AU Details - Cleaned as I can see wear on the hair and the top of the cap on the obverse and parts of the ribbon and eagles breast feathers on the reverse.

On 2/18/2023 at 7:04 PM, JNelson27 said:

Yikes! What a group. My comment was only for bsshog40... and I thought his response was quoted. Anyway, bye.

With all due respect, making a post on this forum allows everyone to read it. If you wanted to ask a specific person a question, you should PM them. The people on here are extremely knowledgeable. Please do not mistake their opinions as being rude when they are only being straightforward and honest in their assessment. In your shoes, I would appreciate them sharing their knowledge with you on a volunteer basis. Collecting is a forever learning experience as no one person knows all and there is always something new to learn.

On 2/17/2023 at 1:28 PM, VKurtB said:

The reason I wrote what I did above is that there seems to be a strong contingent of new collectors who have decided that ALL doubling is interesting to them.

What is even worse is this same contingent of new collectors firmly believes all mechanical or die erosion doubling is an error and is worth premium dollars. As well as every minor imperfection, die crack, slightly imperfect strike well within mint tolerance, or chip/stain/spot/cud on modern coins is now a strike error and refuse to be otherwise educated that it is not.

Better photos would help to better answer your question, but from what I can tell in your photos, the coin you have has an unnatural surface to me. Dipped is still cleaned, cleaned is still not good. And any of the reputable TPG's are going to know whether or not a coin has been cleaned. You won't be able to "pull one over" on them. You learned a lesson on the Peace dollar you mentioned. Don't make the same mistake with this coin.

If you end up selling coins on eBay (or anywhere on the internet), it depends on the coin(s) in question. Refer to your price guides and red book and know the value of what you are selling. High end MS, as well as AU, XF, and low mintage, key dates, and desired varieties high dollar value coins should be listed individually with more than just two photos. Make sure any photos are clear, of good quality with sufficient lighting, and show the coin from different angles for raw coins. The more photos of both sides and even the rim are advisable on valuable coins so as to provide the seller the best visual they can have before they decide to buy your coin. It is important for your credibility as a seller to give the buyer the most information possible when they buy a coin from you and on the internet, the only way to do that is by having a number of good quality photos of each coin you are selling. [As a side note, several good photos also applies on here when asking questions].

For coins of lesser value say between $100-$10, I would still list each coin individually.

For coins of less than $10 and especially coins of value of $1 or less, cull, or otherwise common face value coins, it is difficult to sell these individually, and would be easier to sell in lot format.

Also, make sure you accept returns. If a customer is unhappy when they get your coin in hand, even after all the work to provide them with good photos and good details about the coin they purchased from you, you should allow them to return the coin.

I am not a fan of ANY cleaning of coins. Whatever environment/bad handling/improper storage caused a spot on a coin, the surface has already undergone change from the original surface which cannot be reversed. Using an eraser is the same as using sandpaper. Keep rubbing an eraser over the same spot on a piece of paper. You will eventually rub a hole through the paper. You will immediately damage the soft surface of a gold or silver coin. I also am not a fan of all these people using acetone (or any other solvent). It may remove a spot from the surface because it also is damaging the entire surface at the same time. I am curious to know if acetone imparts a chemical residue to the surface of a coin after it is dipped. Maybe someone on here has insight to that. NGC will tell you that a warm water rinse of the coin [WITHOUT RUBBING WITH THE FINGERS] is the best you can do to remove surface dirt and let the coin air dry on a microfiber cloth without rubbing, but anything beyond that is going to result in a ruined coin with details grade.

Back to your original issue, I am in agreement with the others, as I am into most silver (Morgans, Peace, Trade, Barber, Franklins, Walkers, halves, quarters...................) and grade does not equate the same eye appeal of a coin, only its surface and devices since being minted relating to wear and nicks and scratches. There are heavily and unevenly toned Morgans and Peace dollars of MS 65 grade as well as gorgeous white cartwheel luster of the same MS 65.

You must be happy with the coin or forever have it bother you. Always make purchases from sellers that do not use stock photos (those that sell in quantity as in 15sold/more than 10 available) are using stock photos and I will not even buy from these sellers as you definitely will not get the coin you think you will get, and I don't have the time to be endlessly returning coins. Also, always buy from sellers that accept returns. Those that do not accept returns will likely have you end up in bitter disappointment when you receive the coin. When it comes to a coin as yours that is not unique or a case where there may only be five or ten known, but plenty of others out there with the same grade, get your money back and use it to find one that is pleasing to your eye.

You have a pair of 1956 circulated album fillers. In the circulated condition they are in, if they appear "mirrored" as you state, they are either improperly cleaned or polished. Coins with that degree of circulation have long lost any cartwheel luster they had and would have surely begun the oxidation process as is typical of silver. They are not worth submitting.

On 2/15/2023 at 6:37 PM, VKurtB said:

I’m curious why you, or anyone else, would want this slabbed. Overslabbing is out of control.

I've stated in other posts I submit all of my coins to NGC for the purpose of most importantly a proper holder to protect the coin from any possible environmental or physical damage, and secondly to take away the question marks surrounding a coin as to what it really is as far as condition and in the case of errors, what caused the error. I am aware Kurt that you do not submit your coins, which is a personal choice you make for your collection and there is nothing wrong with that at all. I do feel, however, it is up to each collector to decide whether or not they want to submit their coins. I know NGC and PCGS have graded a high amount of coins, but compared to total mintage values of all coins since the US Mint was founded (and also if you include world coins, colonial, and ancients as well), it actually is only a very slight portion of the total minted, so I don't think there is an overslabbing issue.

Even on the error presented in this thread there are differing opinions as to what the exactness of the error is, and a proper grading would remove differing subjective points of view from the coin, providing an exact description of the coin for the OP who asked us what we thought about it. I simply gave my opinion as to what I would do with it. It is up to the OP to decide what they want to do with it.

If I may interject, I have 3/4 of all the Franklin Halves in a minimum grade of MS 64 FBL. A 1958 P has a mintage value of 4,000,000+. A 1958 P MS 66 FBL is currently in the NGC price guide as $290. At your price of over $4,000 I am going to quickly run the other way.

I see an off center broadstrike. A legitimate error coin. I agree without the date, it is worth less than a dated example, but I would not diminish the value of this error to just give the coin away. There are niche mint error collectors that specialize in/only collect error coins and the more extreme the error the more they pay for it. I was able to view error coins this summer at a booth at the Worlds Fair of Money when it came to Chicago and the array of what he had for sale was astounding. I was not allowed by him to take pics, only to view. One of the most bizarre to me that he had was a Washington quarter struck on a Mexican Peso planchet (it was in an NGC holder). If I had your coin, even minus there being a date, I would submit it to NGC and have it slabbed. Its value would be whatever an error collector is willing to pay for it.

Morgans being my favorite (NOT claiming to be an expert by any means), but what I note from the coin in the photos you provided is that the 5 seems to be misshapen and I would venture to say was added to a set of generic dies (most likely Chinese made). The O on the reverse also looks like it is too close to the ribbon as there is more space between the O and the ribbon on a genuine Morgan. I also see what appears to be small piles of metal around the date and the base of the neck that would not be on a genuine example. The denticles on the obverse don't seem to be full, and separated which would still be evident on a worn example and the denticles on the reverse seem to blend together toward the south in the area of the mintmark which would also be another red flag on this coin. Lastly, I noticed the chin at the neck on Liberty on the obverse seems to blend into the field of the coin suggesting the relief of the dies is not correct. Way too many inconsistencies on this coin.

The slab may have changed hands many times in the past before it made it to Heritage Auctions. It is possible there were other stickers affixed to it previously and someone attempted to remove a previous sticker but did so unsuccessfully as they damaged the hologram. The hologram is not on the inside of the slab and the slab itself seems to be intact in the photos you provided.

They both look counterfeit. Both coins seem to be out of round and in my opinion appear to be cast pot metal with artificial toning.

Hello and welcome!

Without photos to ascertain what you actually have, it is hard to be able to give you good advice. I submit all of my coins to NGC. The only coins they will not grade are coins that have been plated or altered, counterfeit coins, or those that cannot be determined to be genuine. NGC has ways to submit any coin from ancients to mint errors to varieties, proofs, business strikes, special mint strikes and just about anything in between. Mint errors and varieties have an extra fee on top of the grading fee to establish if it is a mint error or a variety and this fee is charged whether or not the coin returns with that attribution.

That said, with your admission to being new at the hobby, I would strongly advise to get familiar with what you are thinking about submitting as having "alot" of coins to submit will cost you in the thousands of dollars. Also as you are new to the hobby, I am sure most of what you are claiming to be mint errors most likely are not. Error Morgan and Peace dollars are not very common for either series. Morgan dollars have a substantial amount of varieties classed under what are known as VAM's. One of the most widely used resources to investigate these is a book called The Comprehensive Catalog and Encyclopedia of Morgan and Peace Dollars by Leroy C. Van Allen and A. George Mallis. It contains most varieties known except a few that were discovered since the book was published. You can research other US varieties on the main NGC page under the Resources tab and go down to Variety Plus in the dropdown menu. I also recommend that from the main NGC page you type the words "mint error" into the search box and read the three part article they published on what mint errors are recognized.

Mostly, I recommend being you are new to the hobby to get price guides (or use the NGC price guide), and also a book like the NGC Red Book that provides an explanation of the condition of the coin as it correlates to the grade. You need to determine whether or not a coin has sufficient value to submit as the grading fees are very expensive and it is not worth submitting a coin that even though may be in excellent condition is worth less than the holder that it gets put into.

Both NGC and PCGS are the top two grading services and are very similar in fees and grading points. ANACS are also well respected but are less popular than NGC or PCGS. You may see ICG coins but I do not trust the grading points as they are in the holder. I have experimented with cracking their coins out of their holders and submitting them to NGC and they always grade lesser than ICG claims.

Please try to take the time to research the value of the coins you are thinking of submitting before you do before it costs you alot of money to only be disappointed when the box returns and you open it only to find what you thought to be rare and valuable is not.

Good luck!

Heavily damaged. Try to put it back in circulation.

On 2/11/2023 at 11:18 AM, World Colonial said:

Around 1977, someone bought me a set of Lincoln cents where each one had the map of one of the 50 states counter stamped on it.  It came with a cardboard coin board where I (of course) proceeded to tape the coins in the slots to hold it in place.  It was a neat concept but no, not of any value.

I also remember one of my local dealers selling Lincoln cents counter stamped with an image of the Liberty Bell.  Retail was 39c.  I believe the idea was to create a "bicentennial penny".

As a kid I had gotten one of those Lincoln cent sets with a state map counterstamped on each one and one with the border of the lower 48 on it. Agree, the OP's cent is a counterstamp for a promotion. To the OP, please do not submit this cent to any third party graders and save your cash. You can't find any information on it because it is not a US Mint production cent, and in the coin world, it is considered "damaged" in the same way Trade Dollars are that have chopmarks.

Hello and welcome to the forum! My condolences on your loss. As it is, we are only the caretakers of these coins until we pass, and they are left for someone else to carry on the task.

I would ask for you to share more about yourself. Did you collect coins as well and now have inherited a ton of them? Your level of experience in the hobby would be helpful. Also, it would be helpful to know your intent on what you plan to do with them from here?  Hard sell the whole thing, keep part of it, have them professionally graded?

In the absence of even a couple photos, I would ask if there are any substantial amounts of silver dollars (Morgan, Seated Liberty, Draped Bust) and/or gold (Quarter Eagles, Eagles, Double Eagles), early half dollars, ancients, early copper cents, or colonial pieces?

As we know in this forum, condition is not exactly a measure of worth when it comes to value. Consider 1811 half cents, 1913 S Barber quarters, 1893 S Morgans, etc. may not be in perfect condition but still have substantial value based upon low mintage numbers.

My only reservation with taking the collection to a dealer for appraisal is in the case if you are selling the whole collection. A dealer is going to pay less than actual value as they have to make their money by reselling your coins. Third party graders like NGC are not allowed to buy/sell but only grade so you will get an accurate grade translating to an actual value, BUT with that extensive of a collection, the grading costs would be enormous so you will need to do some of your own research to try to determine if you have any extremely rare pieces in the collection before going that route.

It will take a lot of time (would be extremely enjoyable for some of us but maybe not for you), but I would get a basic coin value book unless you want to keep a laptop or tablet open for hours on end and either use the price guide on this site or PCGS coin price guide and attempt to get a base figure of the value of the collection and proceed from there.

I wish you the best of luck in this endeavor!

Hello and welcome! Echoing the others before me, I cannot even make an assessment based on the photo provided. Try not to take the photo through the scope. Try a cell phone pic (most phones cameras nowadays are quite good) using natural daylight, both sides of the coin, and given your question the obverse with the coin tilted in hand at several angles. And, no overlays or text please. Let the coin speak for itself.

Also, for the future, please DO NOT clean your coins or dip them in acetone.

Nice cent Coinbuf! 

On 2/9/2023 at 7:38 PM, bobbyboshay said:

Look at the coin all these opinions no one mentions anything about the rim alignment with that being said I appreciate everyone opinions but did anyone with there predictions look at the alignment no because no one interest in the coin but concerned about the coin not being real I want you to give a opinions on the coin not worrying about it the one help the community with others issues with the coin who care if it the one or not keep in mind it’s just a Penny 1 cent uno that’s all so when you express giving information look at the coin and talk about it not how much someone don’t know this and that did you ever think I don’t have the answer that why I posted so with that said since all the coins Guru said it’s not the one can we talk about other issues going on with the coin since you took the time out to use some much Brain energy up on nothings tried to find something about the coin other then the weight so the community can learn thanks to all the high priest for you expert opinion  wow all this conversation over 1 cents it’s a Penny guy  

Bobby, it took me about two seconds to look at your 1 cent and the scale reading to know the slight misalignment of the strike is well within mint tolerance and would have nothing to do with the weight of the original struck planchet. Your scale is far from accurate as others have stated in this thread. What is insulting to us is that you made a post to ask opinions about a coin you featured and upon getting those opinions you have instantly become defensive and combative. That has no place in this forum. Most of the members in this forum are well seasoned and quite knowledgeable about this hobby. Have some respect.

https://www.ngccoin.com/coin-dealer-locator

Found it on a search. There is a button to click on the page to find dealers that assist with submissions and locate them in your area. Maybe you could work out a deal with one of them.