GoldFinger1969

I'm far from an expert on grading standards so maybe I am out of my element....but if the major issue (not ONLY one, but MAJOR issue) that the advocates of technical grading have is that market grading leads to GRADEFLATION then I think that can be corrected sans having to re-do standards. I know WHEN market grading is alleged to have usurped technical grading -- early-2000's -- but I'm not sure HOW or WHY. Was it just some coins overgraded and then others had to be given the same or similar grade lest you have inconsistency among coins ? You tell me. From what I have read from oldtimers or market veterans, it we were on a strict technical grading standard you'd have many coins graded lower on an absolute basis but their RELATIVE ranks might be unchanged for the most part.

1921 vs. 1922 Saint: I think it is fascinating how historical, financial, and economic events can make HUGE differences in how gold coinage was minted....used....travelled....saved....preserved....from-year-to-year. This is the background that I LOVE to read about with regards to Saints. You see that big change around inflection points like recessions or panics....wars....re-opening of foreign trade...etc. In 1921, you were still suffering the effects of WW I and the Versailles Treaty. In the U.S., an overlooked very steep recession caused by returning GI's hit in 1921. James Grant has chronicled this unique recession ("The Forgotten Depression..1921: The Crash That Cured Itself") a mini-depression that was ended by allowing prices and wages to adjust rather than have fiscal or monetary largesse come to the rescue. RWB and other estimates say that the 1921 Saint has about 175 total survivors with only 4 above MS-65 and 22 in total MS-63 and up. As Akers has said, the 1921 has moved less than any other coin in the rankings over 80 years and in top condition rarity it is more rare than even the 1927-D. Contrast that with the 1922, only 1 year removed from WW I, Versailles, and the mini-Depression of 1921: over 1,500 coins graded MS-65 and almost 60,000 MS-63 and above. That's a HUGE increase over the 1921, even when you adjust for the increased mintage of the 1922 over the 1921 (1.375 MM vs. 528.5K). The 1921's remained "trapped" in the U.S. and were in sub-Treasuries ready to be melted in 1933-37. But the 1922 was widely exported as economies bounced back along with world trade and plenty were brought back in the 1940's, 1950's, and 1960's during The Great Repatriation from Europe and South/Central America.

The GIST of your post was correct, sometimes we all pick up specific details that turn out to be off a bit. Don't sweat it, JKK.

What about auction catalogs or online descriptions with information from sales, like you see with Saints and other coins over at HA ?

Some books just stand the test of time and even if the data turns a bit stale, the books are going to be looked at for years or decades. I think of the Whitman Red Books which, especially if they have updated editions, have really good data even compared to the latest that you can get off the internet. If you collect a more niche or obscure coin set, there might not be as many books out there to choose from, unlike Lincoln Cents or Morgan Dollars which have dozens of books each. A book like RWB's Saints DE book has stuff that you just can't or won't find online as opposed to the books which just compile information that is out there but now it is in one handy easy-to-find location.

The problem is that because this is all subjective, there's a good chance if the next grade is worth alot more $$$ that the 66+ or 66* will eventually become a 67. We've seen gradeflation without the modifiers even on coins that probably got looked at very closely, namely the MCMVII UHR Saints.

Ellison and Wang have pleaded guilty. They'll help nail SBF.

House is appraised at $4 MM in Palo Alto. Must be in the slum area.

Happens to all of us in ANY hobby we pursue, Hog ! I'm into astronomy and like most beginners, I went out and bought a bunch of eyepieces with every possible focal length. But while observing, you do 95% of your observing with 2 or 3 eyepieces, not 10 or 12. I've got eyepieces I haven't used since the 1990's !!!

Aren't they each common to modern bullion ? Could I tell them apart ?

His parents make a good income, most/all of the house probably paid for by their own $$$. You want to see a scam, check out the Butch Lewis Pension Bailout for union pensions.

Didn't he make a pretty good liviing from being a dealer, author, and probably some paid appearances ??

Reportedly, quarter BILLION ($250 MM) bond. But his partents only had to put up their home as collateral.

Got the Stacks/Bowers Liberty Double Eagle book today.....it's in GREAT shape, basically new except for a slight tear on the book jacket (who cares).The book is definitely worth what I paid for it but different than I thought. What Bowers/Galiette do is a year-by-year history of the country dealing with major historical events (Civil War, opening of Carson City Mint, etc.) . But it does NOT have a year-by-year detailed analysis on that year's Liberty DE like Roger Burdette's book on Saint-Gaudens DEs does. For $20, it's definitely worth it to me. For $300, it wouldn't be. Probably not even at $100. It is on fine glossy paper and well-bound, I must say. Every chapter corresponds to a year from 1849 (The Gold Rush) to 1907 (End of the Liberty DE, Hello to the Saint-Gaudens DE).Typical Yearly Chapter: Numismatic news on coins or paper currency....economic or business happenings, like with Standard Oil....details on the dies being sent to the variou Mints....any changes (i.e, Types 1, 2, 3).....coin collector and numismatic commentaries for that year....plus a picture of that year's coin which can be either small or full-page.If you have a chance to get this book on the cheap, definitely a beautiful coffee table book (tell Kramer ! ) or reference book.

You're not "investing" in crypto....you're SPECULATING or GAMBLING in crypto. It is NOT investing !!! It's like saying you're going to "invest" in the Zimbabwe dollar !

Seems like the star grade means exceptional eye appeal or the like, no ?

Think about this, Hog.....how long did it take you to find that coin that you really liked/loved online ? How tiring was it to click the mouse you are using right now ? Now...imagine having to drive to 2 or 3 more local coin shops (LCS)....attend a small regional coin show....call a few dealers....go to some further LCS at least 1 hour away....maybe 2 hours.....and then you get the same coin, a few weeks or months or even a year later, for maybe 10-15% less. Maybe !!

Don't forget, Carson City is RED HOT.....folks want it. It signifies the Old West.

Yes, that's what I saw...that's a pretty big differentiator, the overdate. Eagle, does NGC list a price for the overdate ? PCGS ?

I think with PCGS and NGC at the top....with CAC grading the graders and now getting into grading themselves....I just think we're covered enough. NOBODY is going to be happy with 100% of what we have. If purists are happy, then dealers and collectors won't be...and vice-versa. Get rid of all the labeling and marketing and specialization, and folks with special coins will be unhappy.

I guess the bottom line on Breen is he did some phenomenal work...but he also cut corners at other times....which means you don't know what was legit, what was questionable, and what was 100% made up.

Avoid high reserves. Set the price to get bids, below FMV, if not $1 or $2 as I sometimes see.

Is it a print or a mouse pad ? I can't tell. If he does Double Eagles, I'm interested.

Thanks for the info, Sandon....I have actually been reading about Liberty Double Eagles of late (gonna be meeting a few friends/relatives who collect over the Holidays and wanted to be able to converse with them ) and it was regarding shipwrecked vs. non-shipwrecked coin surfaces on some Liberty DEs: "....I don’t believe that the original surface coins are from a different die pair than the seawater coins; just a different die state."

Can someone expound on "die pair vs. die state" ?