GoldFinger1969

It was. 1st time down there and while I got the Rosen hotels mixed up (I met one of the guys from this and another forum but ended up at the WRONG hotel ) I liked the layout of International Drive. When I had time I didn't mind waiting for the bus/trolley....but other times, I wasn't sure when a bus was going to come and I just took a car service. Got a few names for next year, including the guy who took me to the airport. This year I stayed at the Rosen Inn, next year I take it I have to stay at one of the two other hotels to be nearer OCCC West (FUN flips to the other side of the street next year). Rosen Inn wasn't bad (I walked it once to OCCC; 20 minutes I think), I had a nice Thai restaurant right near me and a few other finger-food places and medium-ticket restaurants. I wonder how many will survive when I go back next year..... Ross, I think FUN was open until 6 PM on some of the days this year, I can't recall 100%. Regardless, if you mill around afterwards to talk to a dealer or outside in the lobby, it can be later. But you are right, it was close-to-dark when I got out but not like in NY. Still some light outside. My bad ! But still have to be careful, dealers have been followed leaving the OCCC and I would think anybody walking back with a suitcase or satchel could be a target.

Oh for sure....I am sure more "upscale" thieves know about the coin shows at places like FUN. As it is dark in January in Florida, if you come out at the close and do any walking you have to be VERY aware.

Roger, not that it matters, but are these books (including the Saints DE one) being produced to give away to some of HA's best clients ? As I understand it, they give away most of their auction books for free to active bidders/buyers....you can buy a yearly sub for like $125 or so.....was wondering if they are treating these books (and the Saint DE) the same way, hence the pricey price for the book direct from HA. That would explain why it also isn't on Amazon.

I"m pretty sure he meant the city....must be some nice hotels though near the convention center and Camden Yards. I assume those are the safe areas. I assume Baltimore has those. But maybe not.

Just checked....3 1/2 hours from the NY 'burbs if I leave from my place, but only 2 1/2 from my folks in South Jersey.

New York, Ross.....I've been meaning to do Whitman since I can probably do it all in 1-day (driving there, back, and no need for a hotel room). Took the train to FUN in January, flew back.

Why don't you do a talk on this at an upcoming FUN Convention ? That would be GREAT !!

I will be going over the die varieties again in coming weeks/days. Plus other select parts that I found really interesting, like the 1933's. For now, gonna finally finish Bowers after having done so with Akers/Ambio.

Roger vs. Bowers: Just wanted to say that reading Bowers book, I have an increased respect for Roger's in-depth information AND PICTURES of die varities. As a non-expert, I find it very difficult to really gleam much from Bower's very short and succinct die information (3-7 sentences) without pictures. I was a bit frustrated because Roger's die material was the first stuff I ever really read on die varieties and he gave so much information (and lots of pics ) that I felt I wasn't absorbing all of it or most of it, just a fraction of it. But now I see I learned alot more with the Saint book's "shotgun approach" rather than the Double Eagle book's "pop-gun" approach. Again, it's not a question of which book is "better." Roger's book is only on Saints and is expected to be more in-depth; Bower's book is on both Liberty and Saint Double Eagles and is meant as a primer. But for those of you who think you might want to give Ross J a run for his money on die varities, there is no comparision in information and pics between the two books.

Can't hurt, I think I'll scour YouTube and look for them. Thanks !

I think we had moving pictures then (1907) -- certainly by the 1920's (but no sound until 1931 or so) -- have you ever uncovered a FILM made in or by the Mint about how they made the coins at all the various steps ?

I'll ask my friend, Quark, he runs a bar and has lots of Gold-Pressed Latinum. I think you take some gold...and some latinum...and then you press it. Maybe like an Oreo cookie, I dunno.....

(1) I believe that John Mercanti created a Winged Liberty coin for some New Hampshire museum commemorative that had some of the ideas or patterns I saw in Roger's Saints book. It may or may not have been the exact thing, save the date. But I recall the headdress for Liberty on the obverse and the eagle at rest (not flight) on the reverse. I think these coins are both in silver (I have them) and gold (I don't). (2) Yeah, tell me about Barber having those patterns and coins.....I think he had like 8 1907 UHRs !!! He sure as hell respected Saint-Gaudens artistic work, or he knew a free moneymaker when he saw it. I believe his wife or estate sold most or all the coins. Roger's book as I recall may have traced the lineage of a few 1907 UHRs back to Barber (I don't have the book handy to check, will later). Another thing on these patterns/designs/coin models....did Barber sign them out -- are they on the cashier's ledger ? Did the Super give him persmission or the Treasury Secretary ? If not, please tell the Secret Service to go to his house and retrieve them. He's probably very old so give him some time after you knock on the door. (3) I have to believe that the Indian Head UHR would have been found by now if it existed. No way somebody could have it and not know what it is. It either got lost/thrown out or destroyed (maybe they knew it would be valuable but didn't want anybody to have it).

Me too....in fact, reading FMTM, my biggest problem is I simply have never seen the steps that happen to transform a gold ingot to a finished coin. I can't visualize the steps and don't know the terminology (i.e, planchets, annealing, etc.). It's like trying to read a book on How To Drive A Car but you've never seen a car or cars on a roadway. Maybe there's a Coin Making For Dummies video on YouTube or something on the Mint's website. The 2009 UHR book I got explains a few things pretty well, but that's for modern coins. Some of the steps 100 years ago like annealing I am not sure we do them today (maybe we do, no idea).

I was surprised but not that many 2009 UHRs at FUN 2020 as I would have thought. I didn't mind, once I got familiar with the table setup I had plenty of other stuff to look at. The few pieces I saw that I liked were very pricey, the other ones were in a slab or had a grade I wasn't thrilled with. Oh well, no rush I said so I'm still looking....

Why did those guys THINK the law would require that ? What was the harm in leaving them alone and maybe Saint-Gaudens or another Mint employee got to take them home ? These guys acted like they were top-secret invasion plans to defend against the Kaiser and needed to be destroyed once they looked at them. It's hard to believe that these guys were designing the 1st DE in 50+ years and nobody bothered to think "Hey, this happens once every 50 years, maybe we should save everything for posterity." Too bad for us.

Why were the laws so specific on coingage? Why would Congress CARE about whether a DE was a completely new design or whether it was 2 older Eagles (planchets) stacked together ? Heck, as I recall it was the Mint, the Treasury Secretary, and Teddy R. who ultimately decided what the coin would look like, Congress never has an input. They could have had a Bison or a Fish on the back of the coin and I don't think Congress would have been able to do anything about it. That would seem to me to be more important than whether the coin had a certain thickness, was from 1 or 2 planchets, etc. I understand the conflict between an outsider (Saint-Gaudens) and the #1 guy at the Mint (Barber) on new coinage. Even if a previous technical prohibition existed on how the coin was made (i.e., 2 planchets), would anybody (Congress) really have cared if Teddy R., ASG, and Barber all gave it a thumbs-up ?

Great commentary and analysis, Ross....I remember reading about that years ago. Nice pics !! I think the 2009 UHR is 27 mm in diameter, Saints were just a shade over 34 mm. So you are talking a bit over 1/4" wider. I'd really love a 34 mm coin with 2 ounces of gold in ultra-high relief.

Nice Zebo ....what grade ? And the obverse ?

Thanks for the Dime pics and the comments. All good ! Yeah, I know a 2 oz. coin would cost...but check out the 2 oz. Wedge-Tailed Eagle Australian coins (let me know if you can't find one). It's alot bigger and the nature of the UHR format of the 2009 plus the thickness meant it was small. I think doubling (or maybe going to 2.5 oz.) would really allow the diameter to get back to the Saint 34 mm size and you'd see the beauty in the coin alot easier. Those Wedge-Tailed Eagle Gold & Silver coins -- 1 oz. to 5 oz. -- are REALLY beautiful. I think a small run would sell out. It's like buying two 1-oz coins. Certainly, the mass demand won't be there but I think you can probably justify a 30,000 - 50,000 run.

What do you think about a 2 ounce UHR ? The coin's thickness and dimensions meant it is really small diameter-wise.....I see other mints around the world and many have 2 oz. gold coins (some even 5 ounce !). I think a 2 ounce gold coin could find a market....you could certainly make it a 34 mm size like the original Saints. I wonder if there's a way to ask if this has been discussed by the CACC ?

Ross, what does all that verbiage on the NGC holder mean ? Some of it is totally new to me.

They auctioned a 1927-D at FUN. It was GREAT -- really electrified the whole room and there was a buzz leading up to the event. That's one of the reasons why I hoped the 1933's would be available. Have you attended any of the big national shows ? FUN was my 1st big national show. It's just been locals before that.

Thanks....they use a good printer, I was very impressed when I saw (grabbed, too ) a few of their books at the FUN conference earlier this year. Same quality paper in your book.

Agreed, I have an OGB from the Mint but will look to buy a PF70 or maybe PF69 at a future coin show. Great sentiments and information, Ross, on the die varieties. You said alot but I agree with all of it. Keep up the good work, I might not be in the same league as you, Roger, and the Cherrypickers....but I'm following you at a comfortable distance.