GoldFinger1969

Henri, how specifically did you find out about and decide to collect Roosters....considering there had to be much less reading material about them (and other foreign gold coins) compared to Saints and Liberty's...Eagles, Half Eagles, etc.? Even today, I can't find much stuff on Roosters on the internet, had to be tons less back in the 1950's and 1960's, no ?

I have personal and family obligations which prevent me from going , but I am going to try and hit FUN 2025. I will miss not re-establishing my friendships with LDhair and others whom I met at FUN 2020. But have a great time, enjoy the show, and report back !

I wonder if RE Preston put that in his Funk & Wagnalls like LAUGH-IN suggested !!!

Fairmont Hoard: It's the gift that keeps on giving ....it's lasted YEARS now....most of the coins and Double Eagles are from 1850 through the 1920's according to Doug Winter. Can't remember if there have been many or any Saints (will check) but most of the coins are from the 1800's and most of the DEs are Liberty Heads including lots of CC's. One of the articles by Winter said it was originally tens of thousands of pieces...whether it is really one big hoard or whether it's the accumulated assets from lots of banks and individuals, I can't say. But apparently I'm not the only person asking how big this hoard is and how long it will go on for. https://raregoldcoins.com/blog/2023/11/17/five-random-observations-about-the-most-recent-fairmont-sale-november-2023

Yeah, I confused "half ounce" with "half Eagle" ......half eagle is 1/4 ounce of gold, 0.25 ounces of gold.

You mean 1/2 ounce and 1/4 ounce gold coins, right Roger ? But DEs and Eagles HAD to be used with European trade/commerce -- there were millions of coins over there. Granted, the $$$ value still probably much less than gold bars but still a decent amount going back-and-forth, right ? Plus the coins sent to Canada, Asia, South/Central America.

Could you keep something like that secret ? The police and insurance companies -- and regulators and politicians -- would need to know if $500 or $500,000 was stolen.

The surviving widow is his 2nd wife, she's still alive. He and his 1st wife divorced in 1971. 3 children, not sure with which lady.

I swear....I've seen more people ask about errors and other valuable anomalies in the last 6 months than I did the last 10 years. What's going on ? Is some influence saying he or she is getting rich with pocket change ?

Wow, I didn't know his SON was John Ashbrook, a favorite of William F. Buckley and NATIONAL REVIEW who challenged Nixon in the 1972 GOP primaries !! The father was a Dem, but John was a GOP'er who represented the same district/area. Tragically, John died in 1982 at age 53 from a gastrointestinal hemmorage while running for the Senate. His widow filled out his congressional term; she is still alive.

Wow, sounds interesting. Those vaults even back then were tough to get into, assuming it was a walk-in. Most thieves would just rob the bank, it was easier and quicker than spending an hour or two trying to get through 6" of steel after-hours.

Yes, like the ones I saw advertised last night at 4 AM...."Only 340,000 minted, not millions.....with only several thousand in the valuable Mint State, your About Uncirculateds are the next best thing.....here you can see being offered for sale for $3,000 on Ebay.....yours here for only 2 payments of $199.99. Limit 10 per household. Order now, operators are STANDING* by." *This is total BS...everybody knows they are not standing by, they are sitting down.

I'm not opposed to "talking ones book" as we say in my trade....but the reason these forums exist are NOT to indulge commerce or facilitate sales...it's to learn about coins and the hobby and related items. Ebay, Craigslist, Etsy, etc....all do sales and I think have their own forums, too. I certainly give a wide berth on what is appropriate here -- I like to go off-tangent every now-and-then, too -- but certainly when someone comes across this place for the 1st time we want them to see helpful, engaging, though-provoking discussions, threads, etc. I'm doing my part to participate in others and also have created a couple of active threads myself. That is all....

That's helpful, maybe I'll do a little work on Ashbrook. If anybody would have thought this through, a coin collector would have.

Roger, what documents or discussions have you seen that talked about the decision to melt down all the Double Eagles into gold bars ? There had to be a debate, no ? I get that 400-oz. bars are easier to facilitate trade...but if they went through all the time and expense of striking all these coins (including the smaller denominations) over DECADES....didn't someone...somewhere....say "Hey, maybe we just want to BAG and STORE these things and wait until things settle down....before definitively and irreversibly melting them all down ?" I get that they waited about 3 years until 1937...why not just send (most of) the bags to Fort Knox instead of doing all this work to melt down tens of millions of coins ? Where's the necessity ? The big decision was to take us off the gold exchange standard. Why the rush to melt down coins into bars, aside from just making it a bit easier to store and since bars were better to facilitate trade (which wasn't a priority since everyone was leaving the gold exchange standard anyway ?). Maybe you footnoted 1 or 2 key sources in the book, if so, I'd like to scour them more in-depth. Or maybe there really wasn't a debate.....they just figured gold coins were for people and those are the ones who will no longer be allowed to hold gold so ditch the coins ? This entire melting of the coins -- seems like nobody at the White House, Treasury, Mint, or collectors of the day....Assay Commission folks...or advisors....even talked about it and said "Stop the rush." I get that there was a Depression and 25% unemployment....they certainly had more pressing things to do with their time...but somewhere...someone....you would think...had to spend a few minutes pondering this decision and listing the pros and cons. At least I would hope so.

So far, palladium and platinum have gotten hit since I wrote this, relative to gold. Platinum has done OK, probably since it was substituted for pricier palladium and this kept up demand. But palladium is off 30% as it was much pricier than platinum and it was cheaper to use that in the face of falling ICE demand. Now that they are both about the same price per ounce, it will be interesting to see where they go price-wise. 90% of underlying ICE demand is at risk and I would not be shocked to see either or both at $500 an ounce within a few years.

This was in production from 1927-1957 ?

Central Bank buying is increasing. Many smaller-to-medium sized CBs know they can sell it for more to their domestic populace as per-capita gold consumption increases as I have outlined here before. Central Bank Gold Binge Is Even Bigger Than Previously Thought World Gold Council raises its estimate for purchases Expansion of bullion reserves has underpinned prices this year

New ATH intraday for the COMEX contract, not sure about spot but it's either there or short by a few bucks.

FDR even said only 3-4% of the currency could be redeemed all at once for gold. Again, it's why it was a gold EXCHANGE standard and not a true, classical gold standard. The Gold Clause plaintiffs didn't even want gold, just more dollars in the higher valued face value for their bonds.

From the Bowers book, the ships in the 1850's apparently weighted mostly about 1,000 tons (give-or-take) and would hold 1-3 tons of gold upon return. Some ships may have been larger and a few decades later, I am sure the ships on average were bigger.

"Gold cover ratios" have nothing to do with currency in circulation vs. gold reserves. It's about maintaining a liquid, functioning market with predictable FIXED exchange rates. That's what the gold exchange standard was predicated on. How much gold backed our currency is not important. Predictable monetary policy AND exchange rates are what mattered.

Dcarr, the Fed "printing money" or engaging in Open Market Operations is not the actions of a bailout or interest-free loan. It's what every central bank does.

Same reason Donald Trump and Joe Biden and others do: they enjoy and value public service. They enjoy the responsibility. It's an ego trip. Whatever.... There are fewer Fed Chairman in our history than presidents. They have alot of power and responsibility. It's the one job in government I would eagerly accept.

Yes, these were covered in David Bowers' Liberty Head DE book. He gives examples of how much and how long it took to get to California through various means (land, thru Panama, etc.). Also the costs...and how much you actually made once you got there.