GoldFinger1969

If someone has a ballpark figure right off the top of their head, that's good enough for me. That's all I am looking for. I don't expect or want the posters to spend any time researching current prices -- quite frankly, I don't want to do it, either...unless it's for a coin that I am seriously curious about or interested in purchasing. If it's at your fingertips, great, if not, no problemo !

Did you mean spot gold value..... ?

I wonder whatever happened to that coin.....

Interesting....I know the regional shows can be squeezed by the nationals and post-Covid shows might be more of a luxury than a necessity for some dealers, attendees, etc. The Bay State Show was an up-and-comer pre-Covid...I wonder if it is still getting traction ? The Big 3 -- ANA, Long Beach, and FUN -- seem secure in their comfort zones.

CB, I never meant to imply that CMQ just started and CAC beans are ending next week....just that the phase-out and phase-in are happening. I'm more surprised that CMQ started than CAC stickering ending.

https://forum.cacgrading.com/discussion/1039/brand-new-cac-competitor-from-stacks-and-david-hall Since CAC is going to be CACG with grading to compete with PCGS and NGC.....CAC stickering will end....so the new CMQ "square hologram" is coming to a slab near you.

If the original wasn't in high relief, not sure the recreation should be. JMHO. I purchased the 2009 Ultra High Relief Saint....but it's 27 MM not 34 MM (Saint diameter), which was one of the original intended sizes when Saint-Gaudens was creating mock models. But because this coin was 99.99% gold and not 90% gold, the total size at all diameters was SMALLER so if they made it 34 mm it would have been really thin. I wonder if they should have done a 90/10 alloy to allow for a larger size than what was sold and to match the original dimensions matching an MCMVII UHR.

I enjoy all the pictures...but it wouldn't hurt if some of you were to give an approximate purchase price and/or current FMV for the coins....and also what it might cost in 1 or 2 grades higher/lower or whever the "inflection" point is. It adds some information to know if some of these MSDs are $50, $250, or 4-figures. Or more !!

They're not needle-movers for Blackstone, which has about $240 billion under management as I recall. These purchases are tiny.

I learned alot in this thread, thanks to everybody !!

I'm not proficient at grading, but I would guess that at AU-50 you have way less than half of remaining luster. You might have that at AU-58. I think you can see some loss of luster in the low-60's.

So "Machine Doubling" is more-or-less a lighter version of DDO, folks ? MD isn't worth much as an error variety...but DDO is...is that right ?

I'm not an expert on DDO or on the Libertad's (though I have a few)...but I think this is not pronounced enough to qualify as DDO. Not seeing it throughout or enough. I'll wait to hear from one of the "experts."

We have the database for that -- and all the coins. It's just a question of AGGREGATING it and then giving a realistic number/approximation to the question "what is the most recent price/value" ? Isn't that what the cloud stocks and "data aggregators" are supposed to do ? Grab data...crunch it. We have dozens/hundreds of data points...it's mostly in 5-6 websites including this and ATS...HA Archives, GC, SB, ebay, not sure you need Etsy and/or Craiglist. Maybe there are electronic ECNs used dealer-to-dealer but that might be from the 1980's and 1990's pre-internet. Grab the data for a particular coin...filter out or include any variable like a "+" or CAC designation if present....create an algorithim to weight a few recent sales vs. sales 6 months ago....vs. sales 1-2 years ago...throw out the outliers....etc...etc. This is what AI was created for, hopefully it's part of our arsenal in a few years.

I'm just saying it would be very helpful. No idea if it is technologically possible. Suppose I wanted to know the price or value on a common Saint or Morgan. Right now, I punch up 1 or 2 sites and get the most recent sales or current offers. Instead, imagine a program that was able to input the necessary search fields at the HA Archives....get a few dozen sales going back 2 years....weight the most recent, delete an outlier or one with CAC.....yes, complicated but isn't that what AI is suppose to be able to do, thousands of computations a second ?

Sandon, if you are submitting the Carson City Morgan, given the submittance costs, what do you think is the floor for FMV ?

Maybe make another Ultra High Relief coin....but this time, recreate the original MCMVII dimensions. I guess that would mean it would have to be 90% gold, 10% copper to increase the size of the alloy.

I'll tell you what would be a KICK*** feature that might or might not be feasible using today's emerging AI technology. If the program had that macro feature of Excel which is able to "grab" live data -- Excel can grab it from Bloomberg, from the Web (like stock quotes from Yahoo Finance, etc) -- and input it into a matrix to develop data points of interest to collectors or dealers. You could be the default program for collectors much like Bloomberg is the default program for fixed-income/bond investors. Getting prices -- historical and recent -- is something that is very time consuming. If your feature could grab the data from various websites -- NGC, PCGS, HA archives, Ebay, GC, etc. -- and then download them and maybe "crunch" them in a smart manner (i.e., throw out highest/lowest 2 prices, average, weigh recent sales more, etc.) -- I think that would be a kick- feature. Maybe it's not currently (technologically) feasible...maybe you can't access some of the data at certain sites....I don't know, I'm not an expert in this stuff. But an interactive matrix that could access electronic websites that dealers use and the ones I listed above would really be useful to folks. I just know that if it had that feature....and it if was able to download HUNDREDS of data points in a second instead of me/others having to punch up lots of searches over multiple websites... that would be one kick*** feature, one I would STRONGLY consider using...and paying for.

Are you developing software for purchase or is it freeware ? Is it in beta testing ?

Roger's book has MS-65 1924 commons going for about $1,000 on average from 1998-2000 (a bit lower in each year). Gold was about $350 for most of this period, falling eventually to just below $300 in late-1999/early-2000. Questions: First, does anybody recall what high-priced MS-66 or MS-67's were selling for when gold was that cheap ? Obviously, they would not collapse in price as much as bullion or quasi-bullion coins. Wonder how much they sold for, if I have to, I'll see if the HA archives has some sales. Second....the price matrix in the book has MS-60's (pure bullion coin) and MS-63 (right on the cusp) going for about $450-$500 for most of that 1998-2000 time period. In other words, a decent premium to gold...confirmed by those charts I've posted which showed that premiums tend to not collapse when gold bottoms. If they did, you'd see Saints selling for $350 or so with a 20% premium which we did NOT see. Would you all agree that those were about the cheapest Saint prices since 1980 ?

$$$

No-Bids: I continue to see lots of coins going for no-bid. Sellers just asking too high a price, esp. for "+" or CAC coins where there was a decent shot in the past to catch an upgrade or a CAC sticker....but now many people feel unless it's CLEARLY undergraded, it's probably already been sent in to PCGS (or NGC) and/or CAC. Here's what's NOT getting bids: A couple of 1928 MS-66+ Saints, one NGC and one PCGS, going no-bid at $4,500 and $4,700 (that's before the bp). A 1924 MS-66+ Saint which stood alone at $3,900. A 1908 NM MS-67+ Saint got no interest at $10,000. I believe an MS-68 is $20,000 or more but it was still too high. A 1914-D MS-65 Saint no interest at $3,200. Here's where (multiple) bids did show up: An MS-61 MCMVII HR went for $14,700 including bp. A 1908 NM MS-67 got 1 bid for $7,700 (w/bp). I think this MIGHT be a bit high for the grade, will check. An MCMVII HR AU-53 went for $10,800 (w/bp). A 1926 MS-67 went for $41,800 (w/bp). A 1924 MS-67 went for $12,400 (w/bp). Anybody bought or sold any Saints lately ? Thoughts ?

How long DOES it take to crack these things out and what do you use exactly ? Use like "Jaws Of Life" or whatever to take off the whole top of the slab or what ?

Well, nobody here is going to buy them in all likelihood if they are Details coins, so seems like alot of work for him to do if that's his goal. dPrince, what's your endgame ? You selling these ? Gonna submit them for grading ? What ?

The predictions may or may not come true....I find the price projections REASONABLE for the time frames indicated. That said....gold could also be $1,800 in 5-10 years, I freely admit. But I don't think so.