GoldFinger1969

That's been the gameplan in the past, but they paid an all-time high price. They didn't buy this on a decline or buy a busted company. And the non-core asset may be the PCGS coin division. We'll have to see. Maybe they see growth in all their areas including coins, who knows. But the HOT areas seem to be cards and collectibles (non-coin).

WC, it appears to be a baseball/collectibles play, not a coin play per se. Heck, even MeTV has a "Collector's Corner" show that airs with famous entertainment and comic book and other collections. Alot of this stuff (costumes, etc.) has to be authenticated to realize value.

That collapse in the PCGS 3000 Index the last 10 years is mostly (1) decline in PM prices after the 2011-12 spike. Gold and silver fell and prices had been bid up expecting a RISE.....(2) huge declines (if what I am reading in these and other coin forums is correct) in purely numismatic coins with very little metallic value (SLQ's, Franklins, Barbers, Morgans, etc.). Select areas can do well. Liberty Head DE's got hit, but lower-graded Carson City Liberty's have doubled as people who can't afford rare or mint state CC's gravitated down and bought there.

The whole baseball card revival seems to be in new and fad cards....holographic cards, special signed cards, premium cards given away in boxes or raffles....etc. It does NOT seem to have lifted prices for all the stuff me and my cousins were buying in the 1980's and 1990's: the old stars (Brett, Gibson, Seaver, Ryan, Mays, Mantle, etc.)...or the then-current ones (Griffey, etc.). But maybe I'm wrong and those have been lifted in price, too. Also seems to have moved into the sports that have not suffered baseball's general decline (hockey, basketball, e-Sports). Football seems to have its fans play the gaming apps. The Covid-19 crisis does seem to have gotten more people into collecting in general and also coins. HA and GC say they've seen nice increases. Not as big as the daytrading apps that have people buying speculative stocks and options (that will end well when the Fed decides to start hiking rates). What is "HGBL" ??

What coins do you collect, what coin books did you hit ?

I did. Probably not, but I'm hoping as a loyal client and buyer of the book they might be able to send me a PDF copy.

Aspet ? You mean Aspen ? What do you mean by "muted definition and detail" ? They look pretty sharp to me...not sure who did the striking for the NPF but modern technology you figure would do a much better job than equipment from 100 years ago.

On a serious subject, since we're talking about book printing.....is the SAINTS book available in a PDF format (or Kindle-type online form) from Heritage ? I may ask them. Would love to have it on my smartphone where I can read the year and mint mark chapters. Or on the couch at night.

Best way to thank Roger is to plug his books.

Roger, you've seen the gold and silver commemoratives produced by the National Park Foundation in honor of Augustus Saint-Gauden, right ? They came out a few years ago...some in high relief, some ultra-high relief. They created the Winged Liberty and also the Indian Head coins with unique obverses and reverses. They were all based on the Judd patterns that you went into detail in the book. Just wanted to know your thoughts on them. I've bought a few of the silver ones.

Yeah, I looked at the pictures in your High Relief Chapter and the potrusion looks like it could amount to that. I had forgotten you included some great examples of the Fin vs. Flat in that chapter. Good job !

Really ? What was the tolerance allowed on the low-end ? If the wire fin got worn, heck even if the entire wire fin disappeared, it doesn't look like it could be more than 1-2% of the entire weight of the coin. But maybe I'm guestimating wrong.

Chile has (active) volcanoes ?

Next coin show I go to I want to look at a Wire Rim and Flat Rim side-by-side. Pics don't do justice but I'll try some HiDef views and hopefully close-ups stay sharp.

Right, Roger....I thought the split was 2/3rds Wire and 1/3rd flat ? Your book I believe notes that once the production was fixed the wire fin disappeared and they were all flat. But all the labels with WIRE or FLAT do so beause before your book and research some thought it really was a different type of coin instead of a production error that was fixed by Leach as you noted. Nope, and over the last few years I agree with his price observations for all but the ultra-high end. I just think his pricing was off a bit and was looking for more color on a surge in supply of 1907 HR's MS63-65. No articles on that, but maybe it was something talked about amongst dealers. This could be something where you have "creeping supply" -- not a flood, just a slow trickle -- and then when the price decline is big enough you have folks wake up in another year or two or three and say "Wow, look at the drops !" and then you see the articles in CoinWeek and other publications.

Doug Winter, a specialist in gold and double eagles, wrote this in CoinWeek when discussing 2020's Hot and Not stuff. For "trophy coins" he said this: In 2019, an average quality PCGS MS63 1907 Wire Edge High Relief $20 typically sold for around $20,000. In late 2019/early 2020 a substantial hoard of High Reliefs in MS63 through MS65 came onto the market and prices dropped to $14,000-15,000 by the middle of 2020. Prices rose slightly towards the end of the year but these are likely to remain flat in 2021. https://coinweek.com/us-coins/classic-us-gold-coins-whats-hot-and-whats-not-2021-edition/ Does anybody have any comments on this ? I agree with the general thrust of 1907 HR Saints falling in price, but I was unaware of any "hoard" or even a floof of MS-63 through MS-65's suddenly hitting the market all of a sudden (although my previous comments about demographics and inheritors/estates selling coins from original or 2nd-hand owners would be increasing). I also would say that MS63's were going for a total price closer to $18,000 and MS65's closer to $25,000 - $30,000 (going off the top of my head). I was tracking the prices pretty closely for a while and one can always check the internet for actual sales prices.

Does that have the 1933 Saint-Gaudens listing ?

My Lighthouse holders are good for PCGS and NGC. Don't have any ANACs or ICG.

I would have loved it. Maybe the idea just needs time, Roger.

Agreed....I certainly am aware that FUN may be working year-to-year with no financial safety net and they may not be in a position to comp many individuals or organizations. My understanding is that a table/booth at FUN might run $1,000 - $1,500 for the first 3 days. Not sure if that is what FUN charges or if that is what OCCC charges FUN. Nonetheless, I think such an expenditure would be well worth it. And I wouldn't mind either being charged a nominal admission fee or having a donation jar to keep such a panel discussion going in the future. Of course, as we said in another thread, a small endowment is what is really needed to help fund new initiatives and give them a bit of financial leeway each year.

I totally disagree. The books in question are among the most popular coin series -- Saints, Morgans, Barbers, Franklins -- that we purchase and collect. You must have reached a rare dunderhead on the FUN committee. They have some very obscure talks there which I am sure are of interest to niche collectors. I don't see how they wouldn't think that someone who authored RED BOOKS like you or Bowers or your book on Saints wouldn't be of interest. The Morgan talk by Randy Campbell was very well attended at FUN 2020. I wouldn't mind an author, a collector, and a dealer on a panel discussion for a particular coin. Missed opportunity....

Very short-sighted. My club makes tables available at cost or we give them away for nothing ($400 for the weekend cost to us) to other, smaller clubs or other astronomy-related non-profits. The conversation table would have been very well-received, IMO. Some people at this site and over at CT have given talks at FUN. I don't know if they were paid or comped or what.....but it definitely added to my enjoyment at my 1st FUN last year. Maybe next time I go I'll put in a plug for your idea. I like the idea of being able to buy some coin books from the authors or from one of the big supply/book sellers there....get it autographed....and maybe see a talk or two by the authors with some Q&A from the audience.

I have no problem with that....higher-ups had to be told at some point, if gold was exchanged for cash. If Saints were exchanged for modern gold coins, no-harm no-foul, but that probably required approval from higher-ups. I guess if they didn't give it, then that would require secrecy. Of course, at some time when the bags are opened folks would know that classic gold got swapped out for newer coins. BTW Roger...on the label question I wasn't implying you had a say in it. I think you got confused or my type was confusing. When the TPG's create labels, they sometimes will add famous collectors names (i.e., Duckor, Eliasburg, Simpson). See below. I thought that some of the patterns and the 1907 Extremely High Relief Saint might have the names of some of the government officials who originally owned them if the lineage could be established. I actually tracked down a catalog featuring a sale of Teddy Roosevelt coins. But I haven't seen any labels with Barber or Roosevelt or others from the 1907'ish or later time periods where they took possession of the coins.

Well, Heritage partnered with Roger Burdette to put out a 600-page book on Saints so there's that. I'm curious what a Goldberg or Stacks or Superior catalog might have especially pre-2000. THOSE might have commentaries or insights that aren't online or in print. Nothing blockbuster-wise, but interesting observations, auction or sales prices, etc.

Have you gone to FUN either on your own or as a presenter ?