GoldFinger1969

Thanks JT....I now believe all these extra paragraphs and sections are from auction catalogs, especially when concerning David Akers where it is either from his own firm (which he ran for a while) or when he was hired by HA or another auction house. I guess he closed David Akers Numismatics sometime in the 2000's. I've purchased a few relevant catalogs that should have the additional commentary and if I can navigate better around the Newman Portal that will also let me browse without spending any $$$ on stuff that doesn't pan out. And of course, I do have Roger's book which remains my Bible on Saints. At least now I know where to look. Thanks again !

I have to spend more time in the NNP, had trouble navigating my way around the first few times I hit it. Thanks, Roger.

Yes, it appears that a few of the classic catalogs and dated ones from very famous sales (i.e., Eliasberg, Price) or a special FUN Platinum sale like the Duckor 2012 sale, can have lots of commentary on the underlying coins. If it's from Heritage it's likely to be mostly or completely on-line, too (though you can never tell how long something stays online ). Non-Heritage catalogs are NOT online; I wonder if they are in that Newman portal ?

Thanks for that tip, Roger. I was reading some Heritage commentary on-line from past auctions and saw tons more information on some (mostly high-end) Saints than I had seen before. Some of it was from your RoAC book(s) but the direct commentary from David Akers I had trouble tracking down. It was NOT from his 2nd Edition 1907-33 Gold book (and I've been told the 1st Edition doesn't have additional sections/commentary). I believe I have ID'd the source, that being some auction catalogs for which Akers must have directly contributed commentary. Apparently, some of these catalogs (much like the 2005 Morse Saint sale) didn't just regurgitate stuff from previous catalogs and existing books, they had new material. As an example, this is for the Norweb 1908-S MS-67 coin (note the reference, "...the specimen offered here....") David Akers Comments: This issue has the second lowest mintage figure of any regular issue Saint-Gaudens double eagle after the 1907 MCMVII High Relief. This low mintage figure, only 22,000 pieces, undoubtedly contributed to the esteem in which the 1908-S was held throughout the 1940s, 1950s and forward to the present day. At one time it was considered to be at the low end of the fourth tier of Saint-Gaudens double eagle rarity which also consisted of the 1920-S, 1922-S, 1924-D, 1925-S and the late date P-Mints 1929, 1931, and 1932. When offered for sale at auction, all of these issues typically realized only in the $200-$400 price range. Unlike almost all of the double eagle issues minted after World War I, the 1908-S issue was intended and used for general circulation. That is why a much larger percentage of known specimens of the 1908-S are in circulated grades than is the case with other prized dates of the series. Although less rare than the low mintage might imply, choice uncirculated and very choice ones are at least very scarce and gem quality MS65 examples are rare with only about 25-30 known. More superb MS66 and MS67 examples exist of this issue than of most of the other rare dates in the series, but they are still very rare with perhaps 15-18 known. The specimen offered here is, in my opinion, the finest known 1908-S double eagle. I first saw it at the Norweb sale in the fall of 1988 and absolutely fell in love with it. I decided to buy it for myself even though I already owned three other beautiful original gems of the date at the time, including the Eliasberg specimen, also graded MS67 by PCGS. The price for this coin at the Norweb sale was $39,600, the same amount that I paid for the 1926-D, which I later sold to Dr. Thaine Price. The Saints in the Norweb sale were very conservatively and consistently undergraded. For example, the 1925-S and aforementioned 1926-D were graded only MS64 and MS63 respectively. I purchased both of them and subsequently sold them to Dr. Price. After they were sold with his collection in 1998, they were submitted for grading to PCGS and received grades of MS68 and MS66 respectively, the first and second finest of their issues graded. But of all the Saints in the Norweb sale, quality-wise, this 1908-S, graded only MS65 in the sale, was by far the finest. It is a one-of-a-kind Saint-Gaudens double eagle with luster and color that is simply extraordinary and fields and devices close to perfection. Personally, I think this is distinctly under graded in a 67 holder and once I bought it I told everyone that it was the one Saint I owned that I planned to keep "forever." However, in 1990 at the Seattle ANA convention, I made the mistake of showing it for the first time to Dr. Duckor. I had already sold him one of my other gems of the date, but this is the one he knew he just had to have. Over the next 15 years he did his best to convince me that I should sell it to him, that it really belonged in a complete collection of Saints of the quality he was putting together. I finally relented and agreed to sell it to him in 2005 and so "forever" in this case lasted for only 17 years. He was right, though; it did belong in his collection, and I am as proud of it being there as he is. I have to admit, though, despite my saying many times over the years that I never have "seller's remorse" after I decide to sell one of my own personal coins, that this coin is definitely the one exception to that rule. From The Dr. and Mrs. Steven L. Duckor Collection.

Actually, I now think that it came from an auction catalog based on this sentence later on: The specimen offered here is, in my opinion, the finest known 1908-S double eagle. I first saw it at the Norweb sale in the fall of 1988 and absolutely fell in love with it. I decided to buy it for myself even though I already owned three other beautiful original gems of the date at the time, including the Eliasberg specimen, also graded MS67 by PCGS.

JT, can you see if these comments are in the chapter on the 1908-S Saint in the hardcover book ? It's part of a larger section based on what I saw on the Heritage website for the sale of a high-end coin. I can't ID the source: David Akers Comments:This issue has the second lowest mintage figure of any regular issue Saint-Gaudens double eagle after the 1907 MCMVII High Relief. This low mintage figure, only 22,000 pieces, undoubtedly contributed to the esteem in which the 1908-S was held throughout the 1940s, 1950s and forward to the present day. At one time it was considered to be at the low end of the fourth tier of Saint-Gaudens double eagle rarity which also consisted of the 1920-S, 1922-S, 1924-D, 1925-S and the late date P-Mints 1929, 1931, and 1932. When offered for sale at auction, all of these issues typically realized only in the $200-$400 price range. Unlike almost all of the double eagle issues minted after World War I, the 1908-S issue was intended and used for general circulation. That is why a much larger percentage of known specimens of the 1908-S are in circulated grades than is the case with other prized dates of the series. Although less rare than the low mintage might imply, choice uncirculated and very choice ones are at least very scarce and gem quality MS65 examples are rare with only about 25-30 known. More superb MS66 and MS67 examples exist of this issue than of most of the other rare dates in the series, but they are still very rare with perhaps 15-18 known.

Yes, Mercanti has made some interesting silver and gold coins and patterns. I love the Wedge-Tailed Eagles from Australia and the 1oz. and 2 oz. Saint-Gaudens silver and golds are really nice. I thought it was fascinating to see the alternate 1907 UHR and High Relief patterns that Saint-Gaudens drew up be turned into actual coins. Insted of imagining "what if..." we get to see the alternate obverses and reverses on real coins. The SAINT-GAUDENS book goes into this in more depth than anything I had seen before with great pics. Other books and articles just mentioned the alternate designs; Roger goes into them in detail.

Did a bubble develop and then pop ? If not, you'd expect even big price increases to support adequate demand for the available supply. Wouldn't the new collectors, if unable to afford the "hefty price increases", just buy lower-quality coins ? That's interesting that today there are few variety collectors based mostly on past prices pricing them out of the market.

Nice..how much is this coin worth approximately ?

You stick it inside your sweater or put it in your HAPPY DAYS lunch box.

So about 170 ounces or 10.6 pounds.

Well, I checked another HA FUN catalog and again it matched up word-for-word with what is on the HA website for the actual coin auction (at least it's up now, who knows in the future ). If I want new information or commentary on certain coins, I'm going to either have to pre-date the auction companies presence on the internet (c. 2000 for most) or go back to the 1970's and 1980's for specialty catalogs from firms that don't have online auctions or don't re-use the catalog info on the internet word-for-word. Oh well, lesson learned at minimal cost. Catalogs from firms no longer around -- Paramount, Superior, etc. -- may still be worth buying.

WC, check out COLLECTORS CALL with Lisa Welchel ("The Facts Of Life") on Sunday evenings on MeTV (it's on hiatus now, I think). Mancow The Shockjock and Barry "Greg Brady" Williams: You'll see what people are collecting and paying big $$$ for...from the helicopter James Bond/Sean Connery used in YOU ONLY LIVE TWICE to Batmobiles, 1960's Christmas Special setups, comics, action figures, etc.

How much gold did this guy take/steal ?

I think all employees at the Mints who come into contact with gold or silver -- including West Point -- go through sophisticated metal detectors that would pick up if you had a piece of gold the size of one of those pastina minis you eat in soup.

Yes, Taubman owned Sotheby's....and when it was bought it was for about $2-$3 billion or 3-4x the purchase price for CU. Excellent point. But the smaller purchase price for CU must mean there is growth SOMEWHERE in the company. I think it's in collectibles and sports memorabilia where stuff is pricey and it's easier to grow the top line by getting fat rates on a smaller number of expensive items rather than grow baseball card grading and/or coin certification. You buy something from a Marvel movie and it is $50,000 that's $500 - $2,000 probably right there.

Both are private. Sotheby's was public at one time I believe, but you can't have a business like that -- with lumpy quarterly and annual results -- at the whims of the public market. Plus, there is confidential information that is key to securing future sales and revenue streams...you can't give that information out and not put yourself at a competitive disadvantage or tee off your own clients.

We still don't know WHY they want CU and at such a big premium to the stock price the last few quarters. It doesn't appear to be based on a big volume increase for grading coins or sports cards. I wonder if it the Authentication Division or whatever it is called that authenticates alot of memorabilia and collectibles stuff. Providing a Certificate of Authenticity for a costume used in an AVENGERS movie is alot more lucrative than grading some cards or coins. Alot of people are ditching their personal possessions...movie studios and other companies, too....ex-atheletes....it sells faster and for more $$$ if it's legit and authenticated. Of course, it does appear this trimming/overgrading problem left a big stink but the folks at CU/PSA must not believe it's a killer reputation-wise or liability-wise. Well, Heritage has a pretty good data base...it's a bit unwieldly at times and sometimes coins other than what I want come up. The problem is that no 2 coins are exactly alike to it's a guestimate at best for any grade. I think that GC also has a database (I'm sure they're saving the data)....I haven't been able to find/use it yet, but I've saved all my 1907 Saint High Relief auctions over the last few quarters and have a few dozen sales prices that went off on the site. RED BOOKS and GUIDE BOOKS also have pricing information and Roger Burdette's SAINTS book has a 40-year price table for each year and mintmark, if you are into Saints (which I am ).

WC, just to be clear, I wasn't saying I thought Saints should be bought ahead of financial speculation, I'm just saying hypothetically that could happen just like in art, collectibles, current sports/baseball cards, or the false-start with the Wall Street coin funds in 1988-89: too much money coming into a small sector. I've seen this with small-cap and micro-cap stocks where you get 1 or 2 hedge funds or mutual funds looking to buy and they move the stock up a ton. I do think that the Internet can be useful in spreading the joy of coin collecting (and bullion collecting/investing !) to people who otherwise might be buying gold ETFs or other gold telemarketer scams. And you wouldn't need millions to become coin collectors to invigorate the hobby and also strengthen pricing across the bullion and non-bullion coins. A few thousand people a year going to their LCS....buying via HA or GC or SB.....attending the regional or national coin shows from time-to-time. It's a question of time and learning about what is out there. I know for myself, just like people have learned about collecting and stocks and home repair during the Covid-19 shut-down, I have been at my most active in this hobby when I have been working PT or been between jobs.

TSLA is being valued as an energy company not a car company. The market has decided that TSLA was like AMZN and would do to autos/energy what AMZN did in retail. That's why the stock is up 10-fold from the March lows. Private equity has so much $$$ that they need to do SOMETHING soon with it. They don't earn fees until they invest. And if they are earning fees, they are supposed to be invested. Saying "prices are too high, we want to wait a few months...quarters...years" for the next bear market won't cut it.

I had forgotten that PSA is either complicit or tied to the "trimming" and overgrading scandal that could lead to huge liability in refunds: https://www.actionnetwork.com/general/darren-rovell-card-memorabilia-fraud-national-sports-collector-convention https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1298835 This would have me running in the opposite direction from any person or firm who believes this: "...Trading cards are easily the most liquid of all tangible assets, and this factor is continuing to drive attention towards them, especially new wealth”

Looks like some Middle Eastern Christian medallion but not sure what country or region.

Remember....all it takes is a small % of 20ish or 30ish tech billionaires to move a small % into what they liked as kids 15 or 20 or 30 years ago and it can move the market. We see it in art all the time. Imaginge if just 1 or 2 more billionaires said they wanted to emulate Bob Simpson and accumulate Saints. You'd have panic buying at the rare and ultra-rare high end it would filter down to semi-scarce coins, too.

Steve Cohen bought my Mets and in a good year he MIGHT make $125 million from the team. That's when he gets the broadcast rights back, CitiFIELD is packed, and the team goes deep into the playoffs. Last year, Cohen made $1.4 billion on his personal fortune. 10x what the Mets might make in a good/great year.

And yet RSN values are in the toilet. I don't get it. Broadcast rights for the teams per se are still going up so I don't know why the RSN values are dropping. Have to get a sell-side report from one of my old contacts.