GoldFinger1969

1921 Saint-Gaudens: Fascinating chapter, and shows you the depth of Roger's research and how varied the interesting items he includes keep your attention. Big Picture was this was the 2nd SG DE produced after the interruption of WW I. Less than 200 coins survive to this day, < 25 in MS63 or higher grade. Not a well-struck coin with good luster compared to other coins. CT State Library curator Goddard got two 1921's from Mint Curator Comparette -- and then apparently kept them for himself. David Akers notes (as I posted in an earlier page in this thread, I believe) that the 1921 has changed less in the seven decades (now century) than any other Saint in terms of scarcity. Other coins have risen or fallen in rarity as hoards materialized or did not. And the ranking for Mint State coins leads the 1921 to be at the top of the pack at MS64 or above -- even beating the 1927-D. Specimens: Very interesting that there are two 1921's which might have been struck on a different press. One has a "Roman finish" the other has been called "specimen" by a TPG. The SP64 sold for just under $1.5 MM in 2006 which was 2x the price of MS65 1921's, so someone is/was willing to pay up for this coin's (alleged) uniquiness. The other coin was supposedly struck to honor a family member of the Ghiradelli chocolate family killed in WW II. As an aside, I wish it would have been possible to attend a lecture or read a book by Paul Wittlin on how he uncovered all the Saint-Gaudens and other gold coins in European banks. What a fascinating job he had, helping to uncover so many of the valuable pre-1933 gold coins we see in coin displays at shows and for auction online.

Hear-hear......and while not blaming Mo, the 1st set of pics were so bad and did not do the coin justice. There's NO gold color at all in them....contrast that with the pics in the PCGS holder. Light-years difference. Future picture takers....take note !!

Roger, when you were doing the year-by-year and mintmark reviews and commentaries, was there ONE year or mintmark that stood out where you said "this is interesting, I didn't know this, it will stay with me in my head long after I write it" ? For me, it might be the 1932 Saint. It seems people were aware that the Saint DE's might not be struck much longer and that turned out to be correct. The gentleman from Newark who bought 50 of the coins (1st time I believe he ever bought or at least in that quantity) also stood out. Your list of all the direct purchases from the Philly Mint also was a great chapter addition. The amount of information and the info on all the pattern designs for the MCMVII UHR and HR -- no doubt some of it came from RoAC -- also stood out in my mind. Didn't know about all the different female Liberty designs ASG considered using.

Today they have super-sensitive scanners at the various mints that makes it impossible to even steal a few gold shavings that fall on the floor.

Jeff Garrett seems to think the market is closer to red-hot rather than firm: https://coinweek.com/us-coins/jeff-garrett-coin-markets-on-the-move/

I knew the post office would go to pot once "Newman" retired . It's called Mail Fraud and we were warned years ago about it......

Gotcha....I have a few....I buy 'em every now and then....I love the NGC slabs and labels.....but since I am basically buying 1 oz. of silver in a PF69 or PF70 condition, I also look at stuff like the National Park Saint-Gaudens commemoratives and the Wedge-Tailed Eagle coins. Plus an occasional odd and end minted by the Royal Mint, UK Mint, or Perth Mint.

OK, then how would you know a legal tender 12,367 1907 High Reliefs from the early test strikes that were experimental, even if they used the same or similar obverse and reverse dies ? If they got out of the mint, you wouldn't know they weren't legal, right ?

There are bad people out there, whether big timers like Bernie Madoff or local scamsters. My mother wanted some designer living room cabinets to store nick-nacks and family portraits and stuff.....very expensive, about $7,000 to build a pair....my father gave half down to someone recommended by the builder and their new neighbors....guy took the money and never did anything, his business was basically Chapter 11 and he was milking/stealing from the last people he could. Dad got a judgement against the guy FWIW but he never saw a single dollar back. Thankfully, my father has a good investment manager who made him some nice $$$ and he ate the $3,000 loss, Mom got her new cabinets, and she never had to wonder "what if" by going with the cheap ones the builder would have installed instead.

But if you had a $20 UHR pattern or one of the early versions of the $20 High Relief.....they might not be coins but they could certainly be taken to be the subsequently released 1907 High Reliefs....and spent at a local grocery store, right ?

Regrettably, Ebay and Alibaba haven't really suffered from fraud and counterfeits, even when the sellers have been brazen about it.

About how much did MS66 Ikes cost back then ? What do they cost today ?

Now THAT's stealing....not exchanging coins based on year and/or mint mark.

Back To The OP (again !) ......the lower-priced stuff continues to see STRONG bidding activity. Lots of moderns I was buying for $50-$80 in 2019 and early-2020 are now $100-$150 with the base metal down in price. I noted somewhere else here that Large Denomination bills ($500 and $1,000) in medium-to-lower grade have seen a big rise in the last 6-9 monts and it was noted in some currency newsletter. We just have to see if this has staying power in terms of new collectors or buyers.....increased online bidding activity....registered bidders at HA, GC, etc.....and coin shop and coin show traffic. Time will tell, I guess.

Excuse me ? Lots of threads on forums about lost packages. We have some here -- individuals stating items were lost/stolen. Not saying it is at epidemic levels but plenty of stories about packages never arriving either being sent to TPGs or sent from them...and also some more active sellers/buyers, too.

You are right about long delays, Alex, and some of them may have led to too-early complaints of stolen coins. But as we have seen from another thread here (and multiple ones elswhere), other stuff has been taken and packages/envelopes re-sealed.... and some packages have literally been shredded open and left for dead. No ambiguity or delays involved there. If something hasn't reached its destination within 2-3 weeks, unless its a very heavy package, something is amiss. Also, with tracking numbers and priority shipping (and most of these are not being sent Regular Mail) you should know where these packages are every step of the way. As I understand it, when an item is being stolen, it stops on the TRACKING chain and just sits at that destination since it never advances. Sometimes packages are re-sealed and continue on their way (sans valuable coin/coins) and other times the package is openened, the contents taken, and the packaging trashed and thrown out.

Exactly....depends on your preference. And I believe I have bought a bunch for under $100......a few were 70's but demand has gone up a ton since Covid. You can always go down to PF69 or MS69 to save some $$$.

With the thefts at FedX and USPS (I'm sure they are there with UPS even though I can't recall reading about any), I'd be super-wary sending any irreplaceable or even very expensive coin through the mails. There are so many new and PT people working for these companies as volumes have surged since Covid. With the internet, these PT'ers and newbies have checked addresses and know where stuff is going and being sent. You wouldn't have that information 20 or more years ago.

Congrats on your windfall, Mo. The pictures in the holder are LIGHT-YEARS better than the 1st set....there was no gold color in those pics, which really threw me for a loop. I see Heritage sold a couple of XF45's for $16,800 each (including bp) about 3 years ago. Only 1 sold higher, about 5 years ago, but it was in an OGH despite only grading XF40.

What the heck is Etsy -- is it another Ebay copy ? Another Craigslist ? I see it mentioned alot with coins on this and other sites.

Do people tell you where they got these raw, ungraded fakes -- Ebay ? Local coin shop ? Local coin shows ?

So this is how insiders like Barber could get multiple UHRs or HRs -- as long as they paid the metallic value of the patterns/coins, it was all OK. How do we know that the procedures you outlined in your Saints book involving pieces of metal becoming COINS.....were followed with regards to $20 double eagle patterns (if they were presented for payment, wouldn't they be accepted ?) or other experimental strikings of High Reliefs or Saints (maybe even Liberty DEs) ? Even if the Mint personnel paid for the coins, if they weren't presented to the coiner, would it be illegal to spend them for payment ?

Yes, Mark, I got it confused with an older/earlier sale that went for just under $3 MM. The February coin was the PR68 that traces to the Norweb's. Beautiful coin. And you're right about the other one and how the sales are few and far between -- but the price IS rising, even if direct comps quality-wise to earlier sales can be debated. Just seems like the price is rising for trophy assets of any kind (coins, comics, cards, art, whatever) as I am sure all the folks at HA can attest. Just curious, maybe you can answer this based on your past experience as a grader....when someone submits a super-expensive coin (or other item) like a UHR for grading (1st time or a re-grading)...do they bring it in personally or through a designated rep to the offices or do they risk insured overnight ? Or do they bring it to a big show like FUN or Long Beach so they are not separated from the coin ? Can't believe people would send 6-figure or higher coins through the mails or with a dealer's regular stash, but wanted to ask and see how it was done.

I love the Wedge-Tailed Eagles....get some of the 5-Ounce coins, too !

Are we talking about NGC-slabbed U.S. Mint stuff like ASE's which technically could be used in commerce....or private stock "coins" like the National Park Foundation Saint-Gaudens Commemoratives ?