GoldFinger1969

Not Saints or Morgans !!

In the last 2 years (before Covid, actually, though I'm sure it would have happened after too)....I added Heritage and Great Collections to my Ebay list for coins. Have actually done a few thousand dollars worth of business at Heritage and maybe a few hundred or more at GC. You pay up.....nothing cheap (so far)....but it's done at your home....no travelling.....decent return policies....all with clicks of a mouse. Hopefully, all the new online bidders translates into more people at Coin Shows and also in the hobby long-term.

I've been going to about 5-6 coins shows a year. The monthly Garden State Coin & Stamp Show in Parsippany, NJ is a pretty good show (about 40-50 tables). Plenty of coins from $500 - $5,000. There's a Mt. Kisco Show that was getting popular right before Covid hit in early-2020. It might eventually supplant the Westchester Coin & Stamp Show that is quarterly. Better, different dealers and a nicer location. I hope to attend the Baltimore Whitman Show for the first time in November. My 1st big coin show away from the NYC area was FUN 2020 -- had a blast, and if you are a serious collector you have to experience it at least once. Great time....auctions....600 dealers.....met online friends.....there's also courses and tons of lectures.

I think you are OK, Mark. I still want to know why the PO is weeks behind in freaking APRIL !!! Christmas time, I get delays. It's freaking April and nobody is filing taxes either -- they're mostly electronic now. Post Office is really behind the 8-ball. I wonder if lots of workers are taking advantage of Covid-time off procedures granted by their unions.

What can be expected, QA ?

As I recall, the graders of the Wells Fargo Hoard of Saints were looking to justify a 70 to one of the 69 coins -- but couldn't. What is weird is that if a few of those coins are legitimate 69's that they might beat out the UHRs -- whose 69's have allegedly been the beneficiaries of "gradeflation." I think the CoinWeek articles state that the highest (the Bloomfield coin) should be a PF68. Surprised that those few dozen or so pattern UHRs, coming right off the press, were not able to maintain a 70 or (legit) 69 grade. I guess they were handled by human fingers and maybe placed into storage pouches that weren't satiny velvet or whatever was the softest/best thing at that time.

Understood.....I think they are. I live 25 miles north of NYC and my package went to Illinois !! That's like someone on Martha's Vineyard driving out to the beach by heading first to the North Pole.

Reynolds, relax....I think you are OK. That's what I got when my package was headed to Illinois when all it needed was to go 25 miles from NYC to the NY Suburbs. Your package will make it to NGC, probably by way of Illinois.

OK, I thought they were nearby at a local PO but signature or other delivery problems were preventing it getting there. If the coins are stuck a ways back, they are probably safe. I know I had a package leave NYC for my house (NY Suburbs)....and the tracking history said it was IN ILLINOIS a few days later !!! I mean, was it going around the world or what ? I don't know what is up with the Post Office (FedX and UPS seem quicker)....packages that used to take days now take weeks. Did they lose 20% of their personnel because of Covid or what ? I don't think FedX and UPS have been as affected.

I hope you are right, Mark.....you PROBABLY are.....I think his concern (and what mine would be) is not knowing who has the coins: NGC's mail room or the USPS.

If his coins are sitting somewhere NOT at NGC, that is not right. He's got anxiety because he's not sure if the coins are in some mail room at NGC or at some USPS delivery center right before the final leg to NGC. I'm not sure whose fault it is -- USPS or NGC's mail room -- but our friend is worried sick over his coins. NGC should take delivery ASAP even if the packages sit in a secured room or safe somewhere at their offices. If I submitted, I wouldn't want my coins "in limbo" between the USPS or FedX and NGC. At least show it got to NGC....have NGC tell me they got the coins....and then say we're 3 weeks behind so it'll be a while. I can live with that. At least then you don't lose sleep. This is unfair to the senders.

Did you contact NGC ? Can you put up a screenshot of the Tracking History so we might see what you are seeing ?

Is it possible to have homeowners insurance or personal umbrella insurance cover insured coins in shipping ? I would think there might be something there.

Those spots/blotches in the left field at 9 PM on the Norweb 1908-S....are those copper spots ?

I checked the HA archives.....other 1908-S coins selling for 6-figures (that Norweb is/was the most expensive) have good/decent luster but NOTHING compared to that flaming orange that looks like a light-switch was turned on inside the coin. Here's a link to Heritage that will show the 1908-S top coins. Make sure you are registered and sort by PRICE: HIGHEST FIRST to see the Norweb near the top (some non-1908's also appear, I'm not sure why) and the others right behind it. https://coins.ha.com/c/search-results.zx?No=0&Nty=1&Ntk=SI_Titles-Desc&Ns=Price|1&N=51+404+790+231&Ntt=1908-S

I'll check the various archives and websites and see what other 1908-S top-ranked coins in Roger's book look like. That coin may well have been David Akers' favorite based purely on eye appeal alone, irrespective of cost or unique features (i.e, UHR or HR).

Does anybody know why a coin like the Norweb 1908-S -- assuming it is not the angle of lighting -- glistens so gold-like compared to other 1908-S coins which look just pale orange ? It just can't be fresh or polished or new dies. The book says that luster is called by thousands of microscopic ridges, too small for the naked eye, that reflect the light and create the glistening effect. I wonder how many 1908-S's came close to this Norweb specimen.

QA, this is nowhere near the most expensive, rarest, or most famous Saint. But unless this is a light reflection enhancing the luster, this is the most beautiful shot of a Saint-Gaudens gold coin (maybe ANY gold coin) I have ever seen. Right up there with the UHR's and their nearly-pure gold surface after annealing. Meet the Norweb 1908-S, graded MS67 CAC and last sold in 2012 for $161,000. The 1908-S has the 2nd lowest mintage (22,000) after the MCMVII High Relief. David Akers owned it for a long time but finally relented and sold it to Steve Duckor for his registry set. David Akers excerpts: "It is a one-of-a-kind Saint-Gaudens double eagle with luster and color that is simply extraordinary and fields and devices close to perfection. Personally, I think this is distinctly under graded in a 67 holder and once I bought it I told everyone that it was the one Saint I owned that I planned to keep forever....I have to admit, though, despite my saying many times over the years that I never have 'seller's remorse' after I decide to sell one of my own personal coins, that this coin is definitely the one exception to that rule."

Believe it or not, I do see "buyer beware" articles that are bearish or even very bearish going back to the 1989-90 Bubble. And some "the bottom is in" articles after coins had fallen 75-85%....but as it turned out they languished for another 10-15 years even if the major decline was over.

Noted.....but I think he is giving enough anectdotal information but with specifics that you can see it being confirmed by others. So while we can quibble with the EXTENT of his bullishness, I think the general direction is correct.

Funny thing is that you are paying maybe $750 for something with a floor of $500. So it's not an outrageous price. Buy a high-grade Mint State one for $3,000 (6x face) and you have alot more downside.

It is somewhat disappointing that we don't have even 1 perfect MS70 or PF70 Saint today...highest is 69. Probably had to grab it right off mint press to avoid any contact. You'd think the UHRs might be blemish-free but probably touched by hands or placed in non-velvet pouch that slightly touched obverse or reverse. Don't believe any Morgans or Peace ever got 70 grade. Doubt any coin pre-1960 would get that score even from a generous grader.

Great question, QA ......theoretically I'd probably go for a UHR which is technically a pattern. Not only rare but beautiful.....all are proofs and most are PF67 or higher so the grade is top-notch....and if sold, I could easily buy lots of other Saints or other coins including a top-notch 1907 High Relief for maybe 1/10th the price of the UHR. The 1933 Saint may be the most valuable, but it's no different than the other 1907-32 Saints, except for the date. So put me down for a UHR...and if it has to be a "coin" then make it the MCMVII High Relief. I believe the most expensive sold for just under $600,000; this past Sunday a PCGS Flat-Edge MS66 sold on GC for $74,500 ex-bp.

Once you sell it, your're collection is nil, right ? You just have the 1 coin ?

We need to see pics after your list, at least for the most "valuable" coins.