GoldFinger1969

Great smartphone, make sure your phone resolution is set to maximum or near-maximum. Very easy setting to change. Also, Image Stabilization ON (probably already is but make sure). Do that and it should improve the clarity. If you are having a reflection issue...do NOT take the pics from directly above, angle the coins against something at likea 30-degree angle and snap the pics from in front of them and not above.

I think I asked this before somewhere in this or another thread, but I'll re-ask....given today's advanced metallurgy manufacturing and techniques, I would expect die cracks/failures/collapses to be rare or non-existent. True ?

How do we know it is a "die crack" ? If we looked at the die striking it at the time this particular coin was struck, we'd see a matching line on the die between the R-T ? I know that metal dies warp and develop cracks after lots of strikings under high pressure....BUT....does that mean you can't have a die crack when a die is brand new ? I mean, brand new it shouldn't have a crack and you'd expect that the first few hundred (thousand ?) strikes should also be close to flawless, yes or no ?

I've noted that interesting quirk about the 1921's before.....the relative ranking hardly moved over 70 years.

That coin was ranked 4th in the Top 1921's. Roger's book has a nice researched back-and-forth between the CT museum curator Godard and Mint honcho Comparette in obtaining coins for the CT State Museum. Akers Comments excerpts: "The standing of the 1921 in the overall hierarchy of Saint-Gaudens double eagle rarities has changed less over the last seven decades than any other regular issue in the series. During that time, some issues have dropped precipitously from their place at the top (1924-S and 1926-S for example) and others have risen substantially (1920-S, 1930-S and especially 1927-D) but the 1921 has always been recognized as being among the top four rarities of the series, both 70 years ago and today, at least with respect to value. The only thing that has changed is the other three coins with it at the top. The 1921 is now considered to be the second most valuable regular issue Saint-Gaudens double eagle, surpassed only by the 1927-D whose extreme rarity was not recognized fully until the 1950s, at least in comparison to other issues in the series. Judged solely on its population rarity, meaning the total number of specimens known in all grades, the 1921 is certainly rare, but not exceptionally so, comparable overall to the 1920-S, but actually less rare than the 1930-S and 1932. However, as a condition rarity it is the unrivaled "Queen" of the Saint-Gaudens series because the condition at which it becomes extremely rare and valuable is lower than for any other issue. Of course, every Saint is a condition rarity at a certain level. For example, any issue is (or would be if one existed) a great rarity in MS68 or 69. For some issues MS67 is the rarity point, for others it is MS65 or MS66. But no issue, not even the 1927-D, is as difficult to locate in MS64 or higher grades as the 1921. Only four or possibly five specimens are known in the MS65 and MS66 grades combined with nothing finer. Even in the MS63 and 64 grades, the 1921 is a major rarity with no more than 12-15 examples known of those two grades combined.... "...there are only four 1921 double eagles that grade MS65 or MS66 combined. A fifth may exist if it isn't actually the fourth as I conjecture. The best two are the George Seymour Godard specimens which were probably obtained by Godard directly from the mint in the year of issue. Both came on the market in 1982, an extremely depressed coin market at the time, and were sold by Stack's in separate sales. The first, sold in March 1982, was purchased by a dealer and ended up a couple of years later in the William Crawford collection when he purchased it from a Superior sale in 1984; it is now owned by a prominent East Coast Saint-Gaudens specialist. The second Godard piece was sold in Auction '82 as Lot 447 where it was described by Norman Stack as "A twin to, or marginally better than the example we sold in our March sale." (It is important to note here that to every cataloger, including Norman Stack and myself, if you are describing two equal coins in separate catalogs, the second specimen you are describing is always "marginally better" than the one you just sold; it's our nature.) In my opinion, the two Godard pieces are so close in both overall quality and general appearance that it would be difficult, if not impossible, to choose one over the other as "the best". Both are absolutely fabulous coins. This second example is the one now offered here as part of the Dr. Steven Duckor Collection. The third notable 1921 is the Eliasberg specimen, sold with his incomparable collection in late 1982. (Obviously, 1982 was the greatest year ever for buying a gem 1921 Saint!) I purchased the Eliasberg specimen at the sale and subsequently sold it to Dr. Duckor, who later sold it in 1993. It is now in the Simpson Collection graded MS-65+. Many coins, especially the Saints, were ultra-conservatively graded in the Eliasberg sale, but the 1921 takes first place in that regard by a comfortable margin. It was graded "AU55 obverse, MS60 reverse" and realized $28,600. The fourth great 1921 known to me is the only one graded MS65 by PCGS and I feel it could easily have been given the same (+) designation that the Eliasberg specimen received or even graded MS66. I had never seen this coin prior to its appearance in the Goldberg's Dr. Hesselgesser sale in 2007, but the million dollar price it realized confirms its high quality. Could this specimen be the Belden Roach (Feb. 1944)-J.F. Bell (Dec. 1944)-F.C.C. Boyd (WGC 1946) coin? That coin was described in succession by the three most prominent auction houses of the era, B. Max Mehl, Stack's and Numismatic Gallery, as: a) "Brilliant Uncirculated. Perfect in every way.", b) "Brilliant Uncirculated, absolutely flawless."; and c) "A brilliant uncirculated gem". This was the only 1921 Saint ever so described and since it is obviously not one of the Godard coins or the Eliasberg specimen, it may be the coin sold by the Goldberg's in 2007 or it could be a fifth gem quality specimen. After selling the Eliasberg coin in 1993 when he received an offer for it that was just too much to refuse, Dr. Duckor never really planned on ever purchasing another 1921. However, when he recently had a chance to buy one of the two MS66 Godard specimens, he couldn't resist and now he has actually managed to replace and upgrade both the 1920-S and 1921 from the Eliasberg Collection with the even finer specimens now offered here in his collection."

Did great work in "24" and MARATHON MAN. If the company he works for just sells bullion, no objections.

What phone...what resolution ?

Hog, what camera did you use ?

Kudos to Roger for taking care of his reading supporters.

I have to say that I have found virtually all of the dealers courteous, respectful, and friendly -- whether it is the new Mt. Kisco (Westchester) show...the old Westchester Quarterly Show....or the monthly Parsippany Show. And FUN was lots of fun. I can't recall a single negative or even cold attitude from one dealer. And I was looking for it to report back here.

That's more of an issue when you have big stuff to transport. At least 1 or 2 or even 3 cases of coins can be moved in 1 or 2 suitcase-like cases. My astronomy club has folks bring huge telescopes and lots of equipment. You can EASILY save a few hundred dollars by not having to transport something like that back across the country. Some of our folks must spend thousands of dollars transporting stuff acrosss the country, then you also add in lodging, transportation, and food for anywhere from 2-6 workers.

You're talking coin shows here, right ? Do the Big 3 (FUN, ANA, Long Branch) charge more for premium booth locations ?

Wish one of those gals had spoken up about the 1933 Saints !!

Or put them all near one another which is usually not the optimal traffic-wise location. You want a premium location with the attendees ? Then you stay to the end or near the end. We're not giving prime locations, premium tables, to folks packing up late-morning on Sunday.

Covering gold from the early-1900's through the Depression......Roger's book on Saint-Gaudens Double Eagles is very interesting (check out the thread). Covers the history of the gold standard and gold flows and gold coins. Plus, of course, lots of stuff on every year and mintage of Saints.

My astronomy club puts on a world-class expo and vendor show each year. The tendency has been for some dealers -- esp. those who have long drives back home or trips to the airport -- to start packing up on the 2nd day of the show which is Sunday. We didn't like it because the Sunday-only ticket buyers (but also the 2-day buyers) didn't like the aesthetics of folks packing up by 1 PM on a day when the show hours are 10 - 5 PM. It's not a good look. It's disrespectful to the 1-day ticket buyers. So...we asked them to stop and push it back closer to 3 PM. The dealers realized it was in everybody's interest to keep the show's integrity intact.

Condition rarity it is called. Forget rare coins, even moderns -- look at the price for an MS or PF70 vs. a 69. That's with tons of each available and yet the 70's will often sell for 50-100% or more.

There's another coin shop besides Stacks (which I believe is moving downtown to save $$$) on W. 57th Street ? Successor to Paramount, which was big in the 1960's and 1970's ? Paul Wittlin and David Akers workred there for many years. Wow.....

I notice that on those holders -- nicely done, BTW -- that they give 2 grades: strike and surface. I take it this is because you are dealing with coins that are 500-2,500 years old and are not in any condition comparable to coins minted since 1800 or so ?

Really ? I'm surprised....didn't think there was that much demand to make it worth the crooks time.

What coins are you seeing all these AU58's above MS60 ? Myself, I haven't even seen that many MS60's....more MS60-62.

Off the top of your head, Mark....what coin types do you recall seeing the AU58's sell for above low-60's coins....or even just a tiny discount ?

I guess it would depend on if the coins would grade MS-62 or MS-64. And what is the population distribution in the mint states.....does the coin get ultra-rare at MS-64 ? If so, then an MS-62 or MS-63 could be super valuable. OTOH, if it's like a generic Saint or Morgan with availability up to MS-67, grade (and price) might not matter that much moving from AU58 to low-60's.

It could be smaller coins from other series -- Liberty Seateds, Walkers, Pennies, Nickles, Dimes, etc. -- which are more dependent on a 5x loupe for grading purposes. With Saints and Morgans, the fields are pretty big that you can see pretty much how they look. It really depends on the coin.....the relative size of the devices and fields.....how high the relief is....etc. I am sure Mark is correct with some AU58's selling for more than low-60's coins, they are just in coin types I don't follow and am unfamiliar with.

For the price of the books, they can include an online or PDF. If not, I'd gladly pay extra for them like yours. Should be a discount for the online version if you bought the print copy, though.