GoldFinger1969

On 2/24/2022 at 2:15 AM, VKurtB said:

Sounds like if a galaxy has an unexpectedly large central black hole, it has err, umm, had an active social life? All that merging and combining and stuff. 

I may reach out to my astronomy contacts.  Not sure much work has been done on this.  I'll let you know.  Might also be some speakers at NEAF who talked about this (check the RAC NEAF Talks YouTube Channel).

BTW, that quote above was a parody from Star Trek, for those who didn't get it. 

On 2/24/2022 at 2:12 AM, VKurtB said:

Oh, “ultimately graded”. As in “later”. Makes infinite sense. 

The point was.....aided by the lack of number grades, and given that this was pre-TPGs (1982), and probably because they wanted to price it to sell.....it was way "undergraded" however they classified it (which I am pretty sure was Choice Uncirculated).  When it was sent to the TPGs a few years later, it got an MS-66. 

I believe it is in the Top 2 Pop today for 1920-S.

On 2/24/2022 at 2:11 AM, VKurtB said:

Linear? Exponential? What?

Damnit, I'm a money manager, not an astrophysicist, Jim !!  

On 2/24/2022 at 1:25 AM, VKurtB said:

Did MS66 even exist in 1982? Serious question. 

I don't think so.  The vets here can chime in.  But I know from Akers/Duckor that MS-63 was called "Choice Uncirculated" and MS-65 was called "Gem Uncirculated" and MS-67 was "Superb Gem."  Something like that.

The CU coin they bought at Eliasberg '82 was ultimately graded MS-66.  I can post the story if you want in the Saints thread(s).

On 2/24/2022 at 1:29 AM, VKurtB said:

Is there enough data to see if there is a smooth, if unexpected, function of such central black holes versus galaxy mass? Sample size of 2 is kind of, ohhhh, let’s say “unsatisfying”. 

Supermassive black hole is for the most part directly related to the size of the galaxy and presumably, galaxy mergers and collissions which is how many of these galaxies got so big (like M87).

On 2/24/2022 at 1:14 AM, VKurtB said:

And why doesn’t the James Webb fill that need even better?

I hope it is able to tell us why the supermassive black hole at the center of the Andromeda Galaxy is 100x bigger than ours, though the former is only 2x the size of our galaxy.

On 2/23/2022 at 9:14 PM, VKurtB said:

Are you denying a Saint G obsession? If you are, I call BS. 

Obsession ?   This is a coin forum, Kurt, and I talk about the coin(s) that interest me..... which for the most part are Saints.  I don't have a large collection of coins, but the bulk of the value (if not the numbers) is probably Saints.  

If I weaved Saints into a discussion of the Russian move into Ukraine, the Baseball lockout, why inflation is rising, and the rising crime rate -- then you might have a point.   But these forums are about coins and with a few dedicated Saint threads....plus others with topics that somewhat touch upon Saints....I don't think it's obsession so much as my area of focus to talk about them where appropriate.

I could do a review of my posts the last month, 3 months, and year.....probably half are Saint-related ?  Maybe more, maybe less.  I really wasn't counting.

On 2/23/2022 at 9:14 PM, VKurtB said:

I cannot right now think of a U.S. series I could ever care less about. Unless it’s the Pan Pac $50’s. I truly dislike gold in general. So much evil committed in its pursuit. If a chemical element could be said to have evil spirits, it’s gold. It is a proximate cause of WW1, and via the Treaty of Versailles, WW2 also. 

You've made that clear.  I'm not upset or offended by your stance, why are you with my choice ?

And no, trying to weave DISLIKE of gold into the cause of WW I and/or WW II....now, THAT'S an obsession !!! 

Unless you are saying that Gavrilo Princip got sold an overgraded coin by Archduke Ferdinand ?  

On 2/23/2022 at 4:01 PM, VKurtB said:

Gee, obsessed much?

No, just relating what I've seen and read....I could opine on Franklins or Mercs but I have nothing to add there. 

On 2/23/2022 at 7:59 PM, VKurtB said:

Defendants have rights. Coins, even important rarities, do not. If you think these are “cold cases”, think again. There are agents whose entire jobs are tracking down illegal coins and other collectibles. 

Please give them China's address.  I hear they produce a counterfeit or two every now and then. 

On 2/23/2022 at 7:29 PM, VKurtB said:

Yes, I do. Three of the probable four. 

Good to know the FBI can find tiny coins less than 2" in diatmer, but has trouble finding serial killers, terrorists, and foreign nationals. 

On 2/23/2022 at 4:55 PM, Just Bob said:

In that case, I humbly retract my feeble attempt at a joke. Sorry, Penny Lady. 

But the bigger point remains....NGC decided not to go.  Hmmmmm.........could be strictly Covid, could be other reasons, though I think the Long Beach Show would have to fall alot in prestige for NGC or other "biggies" to remove it from their calendar.

On 2/23/2022 at 1:24 PM, VKurtB said:

The number who agree is irrelevant. An unpopular piece of case law is still valid law, nonetheless. 

True.  But reverals happen on far more important and substantive issues, like PLESSY V. FERGUSON.  

I just checked the invaluable price matrix in Roger's book.....in 1982, the 1920-S sold for about $15,000 - $17,000 in MS-63 and low-$30,000 range for MS-65. 

So you have to figure a legit MS-66 would be worth $50,000 at least.  Quite possibly more as the rarity of Superb Gems was probably well known even though the TPGs were still a few years away.

On thing I forgot....even if you went back in time but had to pay CURRENT prices...you could still make out like a bandit because many of these auctions were pre-TPG.

As a result, many of the coins were either misgraded or deliberately UNDERGRADED so as to be priced to sell.  The 1920-S Saint at the Eliasberg '82 auction comes to mind.  I believe it was listed as "Choice Uncirculated" or something akin to MS-63 and when it got sent to the TPGs a few years later it came back MS-66.

On 2/23/2022 at 11:22 AM, Just Bob said:

Apparently, NGC either forgot to send their check, or failed to show up at the show. 

Really ?  I wonder if NGC will focus on FUN closer to their base of operations and PCGS is going to do likewise with Long Beach.

Or maybe Covid and the long travel for each entered into the decisions.  No idea, just speculating. 

On 2/23/2022 at 10:50 AM, RWB said:

Did you get the cat slabbed? I see it's all ready....Did PCGS pay for all the promotional photos?

I've never been to Long Beach, but reading on other forums it appears that PCGS is doing some heavy lifting to keep up the prestige of the Long Beach show since it's practically in their backyard. 

So maybe they are spending more time promoting, advertising, sending more people, etc. to Long Beach to make sure it stays up there with the ANA and FUN Shows.

You vets who've gone to Long Beach for years....what say you ? 

Alibaba has been known for years.  I didn't know TenCent was really big in selling stuff, they're an entertainment conglomerate into gaming, communications, etc.

Both companies in the crosshairs of the CCP. 

Great report ....I liked the photo of the PCGS founders, wow, 36 years ago....everyone looked alot younger (check out JA's hair !!).

On 2/22/2022 at 8:43 PM, RWB said:

"Most people" knew nothing of the kind and did not care. Read the essays at the beginning of each section --- they were prepared to answer this kind of modern mis-assumption. History is contextual.

I meant most collectors.  Most Americans were not concerned with gold coins in 1933 at the depths of The Depression.

Probably finding a job, buying food, stuff like that.

On 2/22/2022 at 8:35 PM, VKurtB said:

I fear your desire to believe that the 1933’s were basically just another year doesn’t square with the history. It may be THE critical question at the crux of the matter. 

They kept striking tens of thousands a week for a few months thinking that EVENTUALLY they'd probably be released.  

The Bank Holiday closed banks -- they reopened.  Most people probably thought that something rationale would happen to gold and you'd use most or all of the struck 1933's.

I mean, they were striking the coins until May.....why do that if you knew they'd be melted down ?

On 2/22/2022 at 8:31 PM, VKurtB said:

Wait. 1931 is relevant how? 

Another coin that didn't appear at auction until 1937. 

On 2/22/2022 at 8:30 PM, VKurtB said:

There have been multiple articles written listing refusals to museums. I bet even Roger agrees. 

I've SEEN references to them, yes.  But I'd like to know WHEN they asked, WHO they asked, and if they were regular buyers.

On 2/22/2022 at 8:25 PM, RWB said:

Auction catalog comment.

"David Stone from Heritage Auctions surveyed auctions from 1935 to 1944. He found that a 1931 double eagle appeared twelve times, and in eleven sales both 1931 and 1932 coins were offered. The first auction appearance of a 1931 double eagle occurred in lot 1393 of the Needham, Herrick and Other Collections (Thomas Elder, 9/1937)."

Yup, I remember that from your book now that you jogged my memory.  

On 2/22/2022 at 8:15 PM, VKurtB said:

Then explain the lack of availability to museums. 

I don't know what Museum buying patterns were pre-1933 and if they changed because they expected that 1933's might be the last one.  CT State Museum bought Saint DEs but I am unaware of others that were regular buyers.

Maybe you or Roger know if museums were active buyers, I don't recall seeing too many on the list of direct purchasers after the 1929 Crash.

On 2/22/2022 at 8:13 PM, VKurtB said:

Unless it can be PROVEN that the coins (Roger estimates 25, I am saying 24.) left legally in early 1933, the government wins. 

Agreed...and it shouldn't be the case, IMO.   Get another judge who sets different rules (or if the Langbord's hadn't turned in all 10 coins) and things might be different.

On 2/22/2022 at 8:13 PM, VKurtB said:

Remember, many people (museums primarily)  asked for 1933’s and all were summarily turned down. That alone makes 1933’s different from ALL OTHER DATES. They were at all times and circumstances unavailable. 

I've heard that but not seen hard evidence.  Got proof ?