GoldFinger1969

Deleted Dupe

Ok, the 1933 stuff I let slide...but them's FIGHTING WORDS, Kurt !! No Mets collapse this year. We're already without Jake, that is what killed us last year (we collapsed to the DAY he went out for the year in 2021). And with the expanded playoffs and Steve Cohen's expanded payroll, I think we're OK. If Jake comes back -- likely (relief pitcher ?) -- that's a MAJOR addition at the ASG or thereabouts that no other team can match via a trade. Concerned about the down offensive stats for the team, but it seems to be MLB-wide.

I was kind of surprised it turned out to be Stuart Weitzman as the bidder. I assumed it was some wealthy hedge fund or financial type who was not normally a coin collector. I thought maybe Paul Tudor Jones, Steve Cohen, David Tepper...etc. Then I thought maybe a business type like David Koch. All wrong. Oh well, at least Steve Cohen bought my Mets.

I just realized...no MCMVII High Relief in the collection. Strange.....

Major Saints Collection Auction @ HA: I see that while I was out of commission there was a pretty prestigious Saint-Gaudens DE collection auctioned off a week ago (The Warren Collection). Mostly very high-end. I'm not as familiar with the pricing for alot of these super-expensive coins so I might have to research if they moved up in price alot. Certainly, these coins would NOT be impacted by the Covid-19 newcomer bidding, they're not chasing 5-figure and 6-figure gold coins. If you are familiar with these coins or bid, let us know what you think about the final prices. Select coins, after the first 10 or so chronologically, I skipped around to just focus on the 6-figure or pricey ones: A 1907 MS67 PCGS......$276,000 (incl. BP). 1908 NM WF MS68.......$20,400 1908-D MS66.................$28,800 1908 Motto MS66...........$50,400 1908-D Motto MS66.......$21,000 1908-S MS66 CAC ......$156,000 1909/08 MS66 CAC......$336,000 (FS-301 on label, anybody know what that means ? Probably in RWB's book). 1909 MS66 CAC...........$312,000 1909-D MS66+..............$264,000 1909-S MS66.................$26,400 1911-D MS67.................$54,000 1913 MS65 CAC............$102,000 1920 MS65.....................$180,000 1920-S MS65.................$600,000 1921 MS63.....................$312,000 1924-D MS65.................$144,000 1925 MS67 CAC............$132,000 1925-D MS66.................$336,000 1927-S MS64..................$114,000 1929 MS65.......................$90,000 1930-S MS65 CAC.........$288,000 1931 MS65 CAC.............$312,000 1931-D MS65..................$228,000 1932 MS66......................$288,000

Ok, thanks Taz.....I was having trouble locating it. This auction was last week ? I should be able to find it by last name....thanks. Teed off I missed it. Like you I would have enjoyed watching the bidding but I was recovering from surgery. I went to the FUN 2020 Duckor 1927-D 65+ sale and being in attendance was great (my friend told me not to put my hands behind my head or they'd think I want to bid !!! )

The place I went to had some advanced salt-aging room where they showed us all the meats. We saw how they became different cuts/flavors at different days of aging. Also were told that 50% of all we saw would be thrown out because it could not be sold in time. My friend, who travels alot, agreed with that saying they made their $$$ on drinks, appetizers, and deserts...NOT the pricey meats for the most part. Seems strange to me that you make no or little money on your most expensive item. But what do I know about the economics of anything more advanced than a Sabret Hot Dog stand ?

This is another show -- besides Long Beach -- that Charmy has said has some really sizeable pent-up demand from both dealers AND the retail public. And yet I had been told that attendance at CS and LB had been falling as we hit Covid-19 in early-2020. I think we can safely assume some or all of these have happened: Reports of these shows demise have been exaggerated. There is HUGE pent-up demand from any and all coin collectors and those who attend shows. Let's see if after 2 or 3 or 4 years the demand is still there. It's possible we have attracted new entrants to this hobby. Maybe they showed up in force. As an aside, I'm not sure if the steakhouse Charmy attended is the same but renamed one that I went to back in 2015 on a trip to Wrigley Field. It was called David Burke's Primehouse and as I recall the 3 of us ran up a $450 bill without wine. And the $120 ribeye wasn't that hot. Appetizers and regular steaks/filets were top-notch, though.

Maybe the Mods want to lock this thread and link it to the one I posted above ? Barring that, let me just answer your basic question Alex so you don't have to go fishing for an hour to find the answer: the 19,900 coins were probably part of an international trade settlement. Most likely a South or Central American country (coins moved very infrequently, unlike European hoards, which explains the superb quality)....and of course, their origin and place over the decades has NOTHING to do with a Wells Fargo branch. They were simply stored at one in Las Vegas, NV while the sellers and buyer (Gillio) did their counting, tabulating, etc. Remember, NOT all 1908 NM's are Wells Fargo Hoard coins. I believe 1908 NM's were in OK supply before the WF Hoard was found. After that, as I've detailed, the price at all Mint State grade points become the most affordable for any Saint in that particular grade.

And at the risk of promoting commercialism on the site -- which I have no interest in doing -- let me just echo Roger's point above on his magnus opus on Saint-Gaudens DEs. And a good way to support niche research like that or have the authors (we have several here) contribute selfessly and generously in posts here is to support their work by buying a quality book like that and spreading the word. Yeah, I'm biased..... and have no problem admitting it.

Congrats on the coin, Alex !! Mazel Tov !! Here's the other thread with many useful (and useless ) posts. I think I have some links here and some quotes from interesting websites. Thread was originally much older but I re-started it on Page 2 about a year or so ago:

That's OK with me. What have I got to do in my off-time.....worry about Fantasy Baseball ? Hate that stuff. OTOH, I was informed there were some super-rich prices paid for coins over at HA while I was recovering from surgery. Not sure if they are Saints or other coins. I'm going to scan there tonight and hopefully post either here or better yet in the SAINTS PRICE thread or I'll create a new thread if they are non-Saints. Anybody is free to beat me to it.

At least with Saints, the overwhelming majority of the top coins in 1970's and 1980's auctions were UNDERgraded. Bigtime ! Many went up 2-3 grades when sent to the TPGs years later. David Akers, Duckor, etc....all noted these anomalies. I'm sure you came across their cheap "finds" in your research, right ?

If folks are interested in this topic and appreciate your work, I can't believe a few $$$ is going to impact their buying decision. Your Saints book wasn't cheap but I consider it among the best $$$ I ever spent on a book.

You wrote a book on Saints ? What's the title ? Oh wait.....yeah, that's what this 57-pages-and-counting thread is based on. And stimulate debate. I'm glad EC is here -- that's why I gave him a LIKE even though his position on the 1933 is different from mine. I've even done that with posts from Kurt, who continues to treat some special classic rare coins with his seizure talk the same way Putin talks about Ukraine.

The government has allowed the coins to be sold MULTIPLE times. The statute of limitations has passed. They cannot now declare the coins illegal after collecting TAXES on the transactions. Check out the FIRREA S&L cases from the early-1990's when the government attempted to lie and double-deal. Nailed by the courts. We don't have "proof" that all ~35 1933 Eagles (not DEs) were released legally; we only have written exchanges or sales for about 5 of the coins. Do you intend to confiscate all 35 coins to get at the 30 that are potentially "illegal" ?

Not necessarily, EC. The 1933 DE was advertised for sale in trade publications and at auctions (I believe) during the late-1930's. High-ranking Treasury/Mint officials (including a woman whose name escapes me -- maybe Nellie Taylor Rose ?) had to have seen these offers to sell 1933 DEs in publications like The Numismatist. In addition, the belief was that the 1933 DE wasn't the rarest one out there -- because they were circulating in decent size for those who wanted one (maybe from the Original 25 ?) and that the 1924-S or 1926-S were believed to be rarer. We have reports of old-time dealers telling their favorite clients to wait on a purchase because ears-to-the-ground indicated a few sales forthcoming which would depress the price in the late-1930's. The whole "illegality" started with Leland Howard in 1944.

Would you like YOUR private property seized ex post facto ?

What else have I got to do ? Can't outbid EC for those nice coins of his !!

Did you know that some Treasury officials into the 1950's -- maybe later -- said they'd be OK with seizing those coins ?

Bar talk. I heard someone say the other day he wanted to kick Joe B's in with this inflation, but I didn't call the Secret Service with a legitimate threat.

I have no proof....RWB and others insist there is no linkage...and maybe I'm just wondering why they busted their asses over 25 (?) 1933's while a whole bag of 1928's went missing....but I still wonder if the theft -- REAL THEFT !! -- of an entire bag (250 count) of 1928 DE's was somehow tied to an exchange of 1933's. Yeah, no proof but fun to speculate. Be fascinating to just even find some of those 250 coins and locate them today. Now, THOSE were stolen -- I wonder if the government would confiscate or if the legality of tens of thousands of thousands of other 1928 DEs makes "proving" a 1928 direct's lineage to the Stolen 250 impossible ?

Sure, that's how we learn AND it's fun. If you purchased/read RWB's book that this thread is based on, he has some new ideas on the 1933's. Regardless of one's position, it's good reading.

Yup !! The whole monetization thing ticks some people off more than the debate on the legality of the 1933's (not sure we debated it here that much, I can't recall). I know it was a HUGE debate over on the PCGS Forums. Million dollar coins confiscated.....no problem. $20 to legitimize a gold coin.....them's fighting words !!

Very impressive !! The UHR is probably my favorite Saint, I appreciate the rarity of the 1927-D and mythology surrounding the 1933, but let's be honest: they're pretty blah-looking compared to some of the other coins in the series. Not sure why the Registry says there are 59 coins in the set -- is that including proofs ? I guess it's 54 coins since you have the 1933....including an UHR, MCMVII, and the 1909/08. 5 additional coins for proofs to make 54 coins 59 ? I'd check with RWB's book but it's sitting high on a shelf and I can't reach it in my current condition.