GoldFinger1969

You need to know something about the seller and make sure you get crystal-clear hi-def pics like the ones on HA and GC to even be in the ballgame. If the seller was someone you knew or had a good reputation from others who vouched for him, I would be more willing to assume he would pre-screen and not knowingly pass off overgraded or counterfeit pieces.

Ah, the good old days of taking pictures judiciously and not wasting snapshots. God, what was the cost of a roll of Kodak 35 MM Ektachrome or whatever their top brand was called ? And then to develop 20 or 40 pictures or whatever it was....purchase and development of a roll had to run $12-$15 I'll bet. Now, it's basically zero !!

Local, regional, and national coin shows...plus online auction houses like HA and GC. If you have to pay a bit more via an auction for a graded, certified coin....as long as it's not too high a premium....it's worth the peace of mind on what for you is an "expensive" purchase.

Don't rush in....read about the coins...study the population data vs. various grades.....check out some current auctions on HA and GC as well as past sales. The coins are ALWAYS AVAILABLE so make an informed choice for a coin you won't regret weeks or years later.

They'll be affected, but it's not a 1-for-1 deal. Remember, fractional gold is easier for more people to buy than 1 ounce coins. This and the "volume discount" we see whenever you buy something in bulk means you'll pay MORE for the fractionals. Whether you buy a $2.50 Indian Head or a 1/4 ounce American Gold Eagle you'll pay more than a larger coin in the series with more gold, assuming the grade is the same and the population doesn't change much resulting in condition rarity (which might be the case for the Indian Head). I can't speak to the specific premiums on Indian Heads for various grades as I am not familiar with them that closely. The more the numismatic premium, the less the gold price (unless it's a BIG MOVE) will impact it. Check out the prices for the MCMVII High Relief Saints, which are over 6x the spot price of gold in AU-58 or higher condition. Populations matter along with grades; when there are tens of thousands of mint state coins that supply dwarfs collector demand and it has to be bought by the gold investment crowd and they are looking to pay bullion prices or close to that.

Keep in mind that when you buy a Liberty or Saint you are buying 0.9675 ounces of gold, so the price should reflect that 3% discount in gold quantity. A circulated common pre-1933 gold piece with no numismatic value should be a bit less than a common modern gold bullion piece.

First, you've come to the right place, Eagle (great name, no wonder you want Eagles and Double Eagles ! ). Second, you should read the "Roger Burdette Saints Book Thread" if not the book itself. I would also recommend the books on Double Eagles by Bowers and the Gold Coins 1907-33 book by Akers (covers Indian Heads and Saints). Third, I have posted charts for MS-65 and MS-63 Saints vs. Gold bullion prices (I'll try and track them down or repost them as I am travelling right now). The current premium is not dirt-cheap but it's not at elevated levels, either. Ironically, while not a perfect relationship, if you go back over decades the time to buy Saints and other gold coins -- if not bullion itself (the best play) -- has been when those premiums are HIGH. Sort of like buying cyclical stocks when the P/E's are high (because of depressed earnings) and not when they are low (because the cyclically boomed earnings are about to get slammed by a recession).

For coins with numismatic value, right ? I'm unaware of any excess premium for bullion-substitutes among Liberty's and Saints.

I get where you are coming from...but looking at an ACTUAL 1933 Double Eagle vs. pictures would definitely impress upon me all details and minutae. I'd remember where it took place...who was there....what I was wearing...what I was doing right before and after....and then the coin itself. But again, maybe that's just me. The fact that a well-known "illegal" coin was shown...and then the Mint Director of Security talked to you....really stands out to me. But then again, I'm just a regular guy and not a professional coin dealer/collector.

But we don't know that.....I haven't seen anything that FW did not see the leg gash and/or looked closely at the obverse and saw nothing detracting there.

If you had such a rare and "illegal" coin in front of you, and you were a coin collector, the thing I would do would be to look for distinguishing marks right away. But maybe that's just me. Barring that, Fred should have taken out his smartphone and taken some pics.

I wonder how active coin clubs are today compared to 25 and 50 years ago ? I suspect activity is down alot...and I'll also bet that Zoom and other means of having meetings are on the rise. My financial/investment group meets strictly by Zoom. I've learned a ton from message forums, from the back-and-forth, even from what might appear to be petty disputes between stubborn individuals. If you pay attention, there's usually some worth in any article, comment, or online post. Would be interested in polls of the various online forums as to how active the members are in the hobby and what coins they both collect and/or have interest in (you might have interest in a coin but not able to afford it). I'm a bit surprised at the paucity of posts and threads (our group here excepted) on gold coins (Liberty's and Saints). I think the SERIOUS collectors are simply not online and not posting (which makes our friend EC here a pleasant surprise). Look at how few owners of MCMVII High Reliefs -- many of whom are NOT coin collectors -- post or talk about how they got their coins (many inherited, I suspect).

As an astronomer, I heartily second your post !!

What I meant was I think he was RELATIVELY young....in his 40's...and maybe started in his 20's or 30's. I recall virtually all the coins were CAC.

I think going by all the CAC stickers that he was some guy in his 40's or younger which I remember since collecting pennies for a nice price stands out.

When I went to FUN 2020, all the Venezuelans I met blamed Hugo and Madero. Venezuelans aren't stupid....they know they should be among the richest countries in the Western Hemisphere and they're at the bottom instead because of Chavez/Maduro, not U.S. sanctions. Funds would be held in trust to buy Venezuelan people necessities, whereas Maduro wants to buy arms for Columbian and other South American leftists. Only the U.S. can process the heavy sulfur crude that Venezuela produces. Venezuela should be producing about 6 MM bbl./day....instead, they are are at best 1 MM/bbl.day. The country has lost close to $1 trillion dollars in oil revenue thanks to those Socialist clowns.

Your concern should be authoratarian and dictatorial regimes. Funny how the U.S. never has a terrorism or aggression or war problem with other democracies, right ?

I see Russia and the Ukraine like Nazi Germany and Poland, 1939. But unlike France and Great Britain, we're just sending arms and boycotts not mobilizing the reserves.

I think there's a difference betwen naked aggression and a war of conquest vs. defensive wars aimed at elminating threats. The U.S. was very clear for weeks or months or years before all of those situations and countries you referenced. Putin (a dictator) lied about his intentions right up to the invasion. I refuse to put a democracy in the same boat as a bloodthirsty kleptomaniac dictator who murders his own citizens. That said....I think the U.S. will look to sanction Putin and his cronies rather than the Russian people, who are largely victims, too.

(1) Just as with the Gold Standared, the U.S. has to be the supplier of last resort. This means running trade deficits to offset the capital account surplus. (2) There's a price for everything. As my friend used to tell me...."there are no such thing as 'bad bonds' only bad prices." (3) The dollar situation vis a vis Russia was about naked aggression, lies, and deceit. The United States is light-years ahead of other countries in terms of rule of law, due process, and private property rights. The U.S. hasn't confiscated Russian assets, merely frozen them. Big difference. I'd rather trust my assets with the Treasury's Office Of Foreign Asset Control than the Chinese Communist Party !

Look, the double-counting drives me nuts too. You have to ask yourself what coins and in what grades are likely to be re-submitted and which are not. The more of the latter, the more likely the total population is just PCGS + NGC totals. The more of the former, the more you need to estimate the double-counts and subtract them. That said....even having this information which could be cloudy or off is better than nothing, which is what we had prior to the TPGs.

They've been selling for years. And if everyone wants to sell dollars, I hope they like their currencies going up by 20-50%. Their exporters also might have something to say.

Pound down 15% in the last year.

They probably use some kind of proprietary algorithim.

Euro has some major problems coming up, could impact gold like in 2011. Stay tuned.........