GoldFinger1969

Never forget that Enron was a legit company...had real assets....the fraud hit years later once they spun off the tangible, real assets into what is today EOG Resources, a leading E&P fracker/oil/gas company. EOG stands for Enron Oil & Gas (or at least used to).

No disagreement.....I would call gold "fairly valued" myself and certainly LESS OVERVALUED than cryptos, certain stock market sectors, and other non-liquid assets (art, high-end real estate). But all assets, including those that are the playthings of the super-rich, tend to have some price inelasticity to them. Let's see how they all handle quantitative tightenting and a Fed Fund rate closer to 4% from the conditions of the last 14 years. Gold was the ONLY way to hedge or diversify in the 1970's as inflation soared. That's why gold did well and new-trading in currencies (and falling Treasury bond prices) made the trading volumes more or less the same. Today, currencies (and Treasury bond trading) dwarf gold.

No doubt general and asset price inflation impacts billionaire totals and other income/wealth levels. But there is also REAL income/wealth growth, particularly from U.S. dominance of certain key export sectors where we can not only sell to Americans but service the global community. The net worths of folks around in both 1982 and today certainly outstrips inflation and even stock market returns for many.

We had a 12-year decline from 2008 into 2020....then once Americans had all that extra $$$ apparently thgy bought many coins in the index (silver and gold also rose, too). https://www.pcgs.com/prices/coin-index/pcgs3000 Still WAY down from 1989 and even 2008 highs.

BARRON'S -- which is not given to scams -- has had some good interviews and panel discussions on crypto and BitCoin the last few months. There is PROBABLY a place for it -- but whether that place is with BTC at $5,000 or $50,000 or $500,000 I have no freakin' idea. When you have an "expert" on crypto/BTC from a respected Wall Street firm which doesn't need to plug them....that's more credible....these crypto or digital brokers who are 100% invested and immersed in crypto have an obvious bias. I want to see a guy who made his $$$ the hard way -- Warren Buffet, Bill Gates, Ray Dalio, Steve Cohen, David Tepper, a Walton family member, etc. -- put a nice chunk of their net worth into crypto/BTC. Until then......

I'm waiting for holodecks like in Star Trek: TNG.

I don't think that the minting of modern coins -- gold, silver, or otherwise -- will be impacted by any economic circumstances. That's something that is pretty constant, I would think...we're always minting new currency. OTOH.....demand for numismatics and bullion will be impacted by any negative wealth effect that hits the middle-class, the upper middle class, and the so-called "working rich." These are all distinct from the truly wealthy and ultra-HNW types who are worth hundreds of millions or billions and aren't impacted by a 20% or 40% drop in the stock market, falling bond prices, or even real estate drops. The folks who earn $50,000 to $500,000 are big buyers of coins, bullion, numismatics, and commemoratives. Even the working rich -- the small business owner worth $5 MM or $10 MM or even $20 MM -- who buy with large discretionary sums will be impacted by a drop in stock/bond prices. A guy like Bob Simpson or those like him will be unaffected. The folks who login to HA or GC and/or goto a LCS or a regional or national coin show will feel the pinch and cut back. Comparisons to previous times are pretty much useless as the 1970's were a unique time period (e.g., floating currencies in 1973, gold price no longer fixed, inflation, etc.) as my trading volumes post above shows. You also had some unique variables as people got caught up in 2 bubbles in 1980 and 1989 in the last 40 years. A perfect confluence of events and circumstances -- gold going up 20-fold in 10 years, silver going up 40-fold in 10 years, inflation, floating currencies, Doom & Gloom types dominating via TV and newsletters with no financial information available like today -- led to great mispricing of numismatic assets. "Get Rich Quick" schemes with coins and bullion were everywhere from outright scamsters to legit commentators using hyperbole to grab "shelf space" like Howard Ruff's "Ruff Times" newsletter. Still happens today....but on a MUCH smaller scale.

Gold and the foreign exchange market traded $1 billion daily in 1980. Today, gold trades $50 billion a day.....and foreign currencies (led by the dollar) trade $5 TRILLION a day. That's where folks go during times of economic stress and uncertainty....to the dollar generally, more specifically, U.S. Treasuries.

I think the losses are about $1 trillion, but point made. Web 3 is the next version of the internet which is something of a combination of the metaverse, blockchain, and open source -- and I have no idea what I just typed. If Web 3 can put Google, Twitter, and Facebook out of business or re-do how we do e-commerce, I wanna see it first. As for the debate on crypto....ever notice that "regulation" is needed when prices DECLINE but not when they GO UP !!???!! The investor who lost money should blame him or herself, not Elon Musk. He just figured out NOW that crypto may be a Ponzi Scheme ? Musk's environment tweet must have been on the electricity used to mine BitCoin and other cryptos. I believe he made it a while back....not aware of any recent 15% drop in prices. Actionable ? Criminal charges ? For what....offering an opinion ? People need to look in the mirror when they are separated from their money.

I believe the dollar trades a few TRILLION a day now. Gold futures, by comparison, might do $50 billion daily globally. Back in 1979-80, they each did about a billion dollars daily. So gold trades about 50x as frequently but foreign exchange/dollar trades about 3,000x as much.

Why were James Worthy and collectibles featured ? Has Long Beach always included non-coin stuff ? In the past, you'd see a token booth or two like that as a favor to a friend or a special request. But if there was a sizeable number of non-coin dealers, you'd wonder if it was to drive attendance given the resurgence in modern collectibles (NFTs, baseball cards) and other stuff.

Yeah, desperately trying to unload them at HUGE premiums. If the price dropped $200, they'd sell alot faster....assuming they aren't selling at the current price which I'm not sure is the case.

I remember attending baseball card shows in the late-1980's/early-1990's.....you couldn't walk in the aisles, they were too packed.

You could be right. But I am pretty sure he never owned any other Saint other than the 1933. He could care less about the year, mint, or relief status of the coin...he just wanted the 1933 because it was literally one-of-a-kind. Same with the 2 stamps he bought/sold. I don't recall him being mentioned as even a casual collector in his youth.

Do you find California dealers who don't go to ANA or FUN more likely to attend Long Beach since it's basically right their backyard (at least for Southern CA dealers) ? I would think there are many CA dealers -- including smaller ones -- who flock to LB. I'm also sure there are FL-area dealers who just go to FUN and never attend Long Beach.

Toothpaste ?

Robb Report piece on the 1933 sale: https://robbreport.com/shelter/art-collectibles/stuart-weitzman-1933-double-eagle-record-18-9-million-1234618240/

OK, I see where you are coming from. But actually, Stuart Weitzman wasn't a coin or stamp collector when he accumulated his Three Treasures or whatever he called it. He just wanted to have the rarest of a certain group of collectibles. Reminds me of that episode of Star Trek: TNG where some intergalactic collector wants to add Data to his collection ! But I agree...Weitzman is an outlier....the 1933 Saint's natural buyers are going to be like our friend EC who are into coins in general and Saints in particular.

Is the Robb Report still around ? I remember during the 1990's and with Robin Leach it was pretty popular.

Aren't there lots of those artists work? I realize no two are alike and there are different prices/quality assigned to them....but if you want a Picasso and have the $$$ you can probably get it. No 2 collectors can have a 1933 Saint (as of today) since there's only one. Interesting....yes, alot of people don't know Saint-Gaudens was an artist/sculptor. But because he is most famous for designing the coin -- even thought he was very famous BEFORE doing that (hence why TR knew of him) -- that's what folks want to pay up for. The prices for his patterns and experimental models also command a nice price.

EVERYBODY was collecting or gifting those proof/mint sets from about 1965 onward. I think the Mint made so many that most (all ?) barely trade above face value today, right ?

For fraud, yes...but you're talking about coins that an owner might believe are misgraded, right ?

I guess besides yourself there will be other bidders since a top collection doesn't come up for sale that often. It's not like me bidding on stuff from HA or GC that comes up every few weeks or even months. Off the top of your head....does the Simpson Collection have any Top or Top 2/Top 3 Saints ? I believe his 1907 UHR was ranked 3rd by CoinWeek's Saint guru years ago but you probably know that already.

The 7% Rule: The MCMVII 1907 UHR that was sold last year went for a great price...but once again, the return maxxed out at about 7% even though Bob Simpson wanted a top price and the buyer clearly had the $$$ having bought the 1933 Saint a few months earlier. But again....does Simpson really care ? He owned the coin for 15 years...got to enjoy it...then sold it for almost $3 MM more than he paid.

I will take your word for it, don't see anything publicly. Is he selling the entire collection ? Maybe his coin collecting days are over. He's a savvy buyer/seller.....sure as heck fleeced ExxonMobil when he sold them his company for $40 BB !!!