GoldFinger1969

Nah, must be a listing somewhere....I can get 2004 estimates from Bower's Red Book and just sum them up. Off the top of my head I'm going to say 500,000.

As I understand it, they were mass marketed to EVERYBODY including folks with no interest in coins. In the 1960's and 1970's they were regularly given to me and my brother as birthday and Christmas presents. Very few have appreciated because of the quantity produced.

Saints vs. Liberty DEs: There are about 3.9 million surviving Saints known today; does anybody have a corresponding total for Liberty DEs ? NOT mintages....survivors estimate.

You may be right....but what if it takes 75 or 125 years for that scenario to happen ? As Keynes said, in the LONG RUN we are all dead. You can't make investment decisions based on some of your assertsions is all I am saying. They're all VALID observations.....good CONCLUSIONS....just not INVESTABLE in any reasonable time-frame. Look at how long the Euro has survived !

I think I'll save the Roosters...and insert those plastic protective tops on the old Johnson Wax products that were the same size as a quarter.

More important to me....can it fit in the slot to activate a game of SPACE INVADERS or PAC-MAN ?

Known QUANTITIES can not decline over time, only increase. But what can happen is that the DEMAND for a particular coin type and/or year or mintmark increase. That will lead to a rise in price and the notion that what was once plentiful is now scarce.

Beats driving around for weeks or months trying to find a coin I want.....

Leakage from a parallel universe ?

Funny you should mention a prominent dealer. On the other end of the mini-hoard debate, Doug Winter has been saying he's been seeing a steady drip out of Europe for years. Liberty's, Saints, High Reliefs -- a few here, a few there and it has impacted pricing here in the States.

Why would you think that price manipulation would work if at all beyond the short-run ? It NEVER does. See, Soros vs. Bank of England, 1992. And no where is it more fleeting than in the currency markets, where $7 trillion trades daily. You think you can hold back that tide ? Good luck with that. I think, WC, you continue to have a single-minded focus on debt and assume that more debt in the aggegate is bad without looking at the underlining debt fundamentals and more importantly THE DYNAMICS of multiple countries with large debt levels. It doesn't mean they ALL collapse, if any. As an example, the United States -- as the global reserve currency -- is required to run a trade deficit in goods and services (the flip side of a capital account surplus in financial assets)....trade deficits for many countries are lethal but for the U.S. it not only is NOT lethal it is an economic necessity for the U.S. in the global economy.

But do you think that the amount of gold coins here is a big % relative to what is already known ? We know there's still "lots" (however you define it) of valuable coins including gold coins including pre-1933 U.S. gold in SDB's and other hidden locations. But is it significant relative to what is already known ? That's the $64,000 question.

Let's use THIS thread since there's a dupe unless the Mods delete the other one.....

That's the key. Greece's goose was cooked when they went Socialist in 1981. Took 30 years to implode...a small, tourist-driven, 3rd-rate economy and financial center. Top 10 countries with global central banks and other levers have much much stronger defenses against financial contagion.

Not likely but we'll see. If you want to track the BEST global financial columnist and a guy with his pulse on the EU and Euro like nobody else I have read, get a subscription to the UK Telegraph and read Ambrose Evans-Pritchard's columns. He's brilliant talking about the EU, the Fed, Green energy, OPEC and oil, politics, etc. Only reason I subscribe to the UKT although their coverage of the Queen was also outstanding and good reading.

It was the EU but it won't matter.....ever give a little kid a piggy-back ride when they got tired walking at an amusement park or botanical garden or shopping excursion ? Now....ever give another adult who was tired a piggy-back ride ? Italy is 8X the size of Greece by GDP and is the LARGEST debt issuer in the EU. Last time, 7% was the red line for the 10-year Italian bond. Italy is just above 4%...a big rise from a few months ago, and a year ago, but still way below that 7% implosion level. https://www.bloomberg.com/markets/rates-bonds

Because the U.S. got downgraded....financial markets went into a panic......and folks MOVED MONEY GLOBALLY into the U.S. Treasury market !!! The U.S. is different as a global reserve financial currency. It's not a question of being willing to "pay it back" but pay it back in a value close to what lenders gave initially. Mistakes are made, but by and large credit analysts have a much better track record relative to economists, strategists, or equity folks. That's why the bond market is referred to as the "smart money." Historically, the bond market has gotten it right most of the time on corporate, municipal, and sovereign dowrngrades. Asset-backed is tougher and a much spottier record (notably non-agency MBS in 2008-09).

Didn't notice anything except the login glitch. Just opened up a new tab incognito.....logged in.....got to this section no problem.

I just think that most of the holders of pre-1950 coins (and especially pre-1933 gold)....have to have either passed on OR sold in their old age if they needed $$$...and if they DIDN'T need $$$ then they are probably savvy financially and either got their coins graded/appraised or gave them to someone who did. Not an exact science, I admit. I'm trying to be logical here. Let's fast-forward 20 years....let's assume we're all still here and on these forums (QA will be the Moderator by then !! )....by then you figure EVERYBODY (or at least 99% by the actuarial tables) who was born BEFORE 1950 and certainly 1930 has passed on. Their estates or kids or whoever got their assets has no interest in coins unless they're a coin collector....if they are, they almost certainly would get them graded or take them to a dealer....if they just want $$$, they sell ASAP. Either way, the coins make their way to the public or their existence is made known.

Wow...amazing. Hope you are right. Still hoping there's some hidden Saint hoards in some 3rd world banks.

QUALITY coins in top condition and/or rare coins (maybe in lower grades) like Saints, Morgans, etc ? You think there's still lots out there ? I respect your opinion, could be lots of folks out there in the shadows. Look at all the holders of MCMVII High Reliefs...probably more than half of the 8,000-10,000 of them out there are unaccounted for.

Brilliantly stated and I agree. Sort of like oil finds the last 100 years....tons of elephant fields found ALL OVER the world, including the Middle East....the last 50 years, very few such fields but still nice giant fields here-and-there.

But has the BULK -- the low hanging fruit -- been plucked ? I think so. Certainly relative to 1980 (PM bubble spike) and 1990 (coin bubble spike) and then you have 30 years since 1990 of folks needing cash, dying, inheriting, liquidating, etc.

I paid keen attention to the last major show I went to, FUN 2020. I would say the median/average age was in the 50's.

But more than 20 years ago ? 40 years ago ?