GoldFinger1969

Please be careful....collect because you LIKE IT and can AFFORD what you put into it. DO NOT consider your coins "investments" or even tangible assets that will appreciate or even hold their value. They may...they may not. They don't pay interest or dividends and they have with very few time periods turned out to be mediocre to poor "investments" over the long haul. We have a few threads talking about that here. Even trophy coins like the 1933 Double Eagle and the 1908-S Saint-Gaudens MS-68 return mid-single digit returns over most holding periods. Probably the same for other bullion and non-bullion coins.

Only clowns I know are Bozo The Clown, Krusty The Clown, and Eric The Clown (from Seinfeld).

I can't recall if I made it to the complete end of the thread -- it was very long -- because that would be a legitimate explanation. It sure wasn't coming in clear through the first few pages, that I distinctly remember.

Wow, that's unreal. Wonder how the price guides will treat toned and non-toned coins.

My favorite coin(s) are the Saint-Gaudens Double Eagles, as you will probably learn from all the threads I've contributed to on those coins. I like both the obverse and reverse...fascinated by their history in international trade....the stories behind the hoards....how so many (or so few) came to survive to this day....the mysteries involving the bag of 1928 Saints or the entire stash of 1933's (excepting the one our fellow poster EC has ! ). Needless to say, I've bough most books on Saints/Double Eagles including RBWs book (which led to a very active thread here) and scoured the web for other articles, posts, stories, etc. Just wish I had more time -- and money ! -- to spend on them.

Can a Mod or someone at NGC move this thread to the right section ?

But if they EACH had toned coins and they were submitted and re-submitted within a short period of time, then upgrades shouldn't have occured. Or these vets would have realized that toning was the key and gotten that response right away. I have to find the thread again and go over the first few pages...but I don't recall that was the case. Maybe you can confirm. It wasn't like the OP said he submitted the coins a few times in the late-1990's and 20 years later he found the coins 2 grades higher. I think we are talking about a few months or a year or so -- but I'll double-check.

I'll check later and report back, I don't recall if they involved toned coins. But I am sure they weren't toned for the ones who got the upgrade and not for the ones who was posting on the threads.

Can't say definitively you are wrong....but there's no proof to that conclusion. And you ALWAYS say something needs to be backed up, right ?

It was years of savings and pent-up demand. I think I had started looking at 1923-D's in 2015...so I waited about 5 years to pull the trigger. I think with my few remaining $$$ I was scraping the bottom of the barrel and bought a Walt Disney World Mickey Mouse certificate from 1971 when it first opened. I stayed through the end (mistake) and by Sunday lots of dealers had packed up.

Graded...or did you have faith in your ability to spend that money above face value with your grading skills ?

Basically....some savvy Franklin collectors had nice coins in PCGS holders....they resubmitted them hoping for a higher or even "+" grade....got nothing for their efforts....sold the coins for a few hundred bucks...later on, they see their same coin in a new holder with 1-2 grades higher, sometimes with CAC, coins now worth 10-20x what they sold it for a a few years earlier or less.

No, that was for Franklin Half-Dollars. It was an infamous Franklin Gradeflation Thread that apparently had many victims, maybe some here. "I have seen that happen too with some CC Morgans and a few older half dollar coins, typically an OGH with a CAC, mostly at the spike earlier this year. Collectors seemed to go ga-ga over them even if they paid more of a premium than a grade bump would give you, so I avoid those like the plague. I think it may be more to do with the older holders and change in grading standards, and it may be happening less often now with ppl pulling back on what thay are spending. The OGH might indicate that a coin by itself was conservatively graded decades ago and might deserve a grade bump, with or without a CAC. But OGH and confirmation by an experienced grader, with or without CAC, I could see the price jumping to the next grade level for some coins. Don't doubt it hasn't happened. I just haven't seen it for the Saints I track closely. But most are recent holders, not OGH. OGH + CAC (I don't think you'd see OGH and a "+") might be enough to get you a 1 grade bump. But if that was the case, wouldn't the Gold Bean be there to indicate too LOW for the grade instead of just SOLID for the grade (as a Green Bean indicates) ?

I'm talking about a 65 CAC or any other grade costing more than a 1-grade higher coin (in this case, 66). I haven't seen it and I scour the auctions weekly. Not even for "+" grades. I see big boosts for Saints from 66 to 67 for some of the commons....but even a 66+CAC isn't going to come close to a 67, at least not for the ones I am looking at.

I haven't seen that and I've been on the lookout for it, at least with DEs.

Understood....I think the examples that the OP had was it was a PCGS holder and he sent it to them a few times. Never got upgraded...then a few years later he saw it in a much higher-graded holder and flipped out. Surprised that thread lasted as long as it did but I believe lots of people got removed for posting stuff there.

Foreign coins have been hot the last 3-5 years....feel free to tell us how some of the purchases turned out.

Thanks Mike...yeah, that holder must be pretty new...I know NGC uses label wrap-arounds, I think I have one....I bet that same holder is used for 10 ounce bullion coins which I see are now getting slabbed.

OK, re-submissions...not sure if they cracked it out first or whatever. I've never done it but the bottom line was you had rare pop coins going up 1 1/2 grades with CAC and the value increasing 20-fold.

This thing depends on probabilities. My aunt and uncle had to stay at a hotel because they evacuated their Florida home due to Hurricane Ian. Apparently, all the employees and workers at the hotel were from Caribbean countries lagging on vaccination and with Covid problems still. They BOTH got Covid a few days ago.

$3,500 on a 1923-D MS-66 Saint-Gaudens Double Eagle. Bought at FUN 2020, my 1st time there. Went there with about $10,000 in cash....came home with a bunch of coins and $180 left. Purchase was fortuitously timed, gold prices and Saints have risen since.

Wait...the GSA holder is the plastic that mentions the Carson City pedigree....I thought that NGC and PCGS just put a ribbon around it and left it in the original plastic ?

If it was in an ANACS or ICG holder, of course it's already been graded -- am I missing something ? Or maybe I'm confused. You send in non-cross eligble -- why are you sending it in if it's not eligible for crossing ? Not sure what the importance of the inner holder is....who is "on notice" ? PCGS or NGC ? ANACs or ICG ? Sorry, either the post is confusing or I'm not sure what you are trying to say.

Did you ever read the Franklin Gradeflation thread over ATS ? Fascinating....

Any reason you needed that information ? Mailing some or trying to put them in a holder ?