GoldFinger1969

It's like you were a Star Trek transporter accident consisting of me and Quintus being merged together !!

Interesting, and worthy of consideration alongside all other speculation. What leads me to think it was NOT a European hoard is that hiding/missing this quantity of DEs for decades would have been tough. Plus, you had representatives of U.S. dealers actively scouring the European banks in the 1950', 1960's, and 1970's. I would think they wouldn't have missed a 20,000 coin hoard all that time. That said, clearly there are sensitive issues with disclosing the COMPLETE story with these coins. I hope Mr. Gillio does release them at some time, even if posthumously for himself or the counterparties. I suspect that whomever he purchased them from was sensitive about the sale for whatever reasons.

Agreed....I don't think it was because of the coins or the nature of the hoard....standards were just starting to liberalize after the opening decade of TPGs.

I've heard that from others. But when you get into the top of the Wells Fargo coins, the MCMVII UHRs, or the best of the MCMVII HRs.... you seem to have a fluid grading system where the ability of a buyer to pay more for a higher-graded coin appears to have influenced the grading even if subconsciously. Thankfully, PCGS did NOT give out a 70 grade even though they admit they tried to justify one.

I could care less about Dan Carr; from what I know of him he's transparent about what he is doing and what he sells. There is no intent to deceive as I understand it. I'm talking about all these Ebay counterfeits and the overseas (Chinese) fakes. Folks producing fake coins and fake slabs in quantity are the main problem, not somebody mischaracterizing a single coin on Craigslist or Ebay.

It's part of the story that is attractive to some people...and that is enough to justify a higher price to those individuals. But you are right, some of the "hoards" are self-created or exaggerated and not worth anything IMO. Ironically, the Saints 1908 Wells Fargo No Motto Hoard is really misnamed because "Wells Fargo" dealt with where they were stored when they were bought by Ron Gillio and his partners. The name on them should really deal with the circa 1917 international transaction which resulted in them remaining untouched for decades.

I'd like to see the ANA do more to fight counterfeiting with state and federal authorities....and working with online sellers.....etc. Sting operations along with heavy fines/jail time seem to be the solutuion for domestics, not sure about foreign/Chinese.

Yes, we're the collectors who like to talk and learn about what we have and others have. Others simply collect...store their goodies....and get on with their lives.

I'll report back when I goto some local shows next few weeks. FUN 2020 was definitely skewing older, last big show I attended.

Impressive collection, congrats !

You think the number of dealers is UP from pre-Covid or 10 or 15 years ago ?

In their defense, they serve a niche that is part of our greater community. Sort of like how baseball Fantasy players are part of the fandom of baseball....but fans like myself detest fantasy baseball.

I'm probably wrong but I would guess around 1990 and the Coin Bubble of 1989-90 ?

You have multiple hoards for both Morgans and Peace Dollars ? I'd be interested in knowing which ones, besides the obvious GSA 1970's release. A few recent Morgan hoards got their own labels. I track hoards for Saint-Gaudens Double Eagles.

Folks.....WAY WORSE than an off-topic post...or politics....or soliciting....we've gone into direct personal attacks and risk threads or the entire site being shut down. Let's just stick to COINS and COIN-RELATED stuff, OK ? Otherwise, none of us will be here. Disagree about coins or stuff related to coins. Fight about grades or value or proof status. Not the personal. If we can't do it for ourselves, let's do it for our friend, DaveLange, OK ? Peace........

What do you want done ? What is the problem as you see it ?

I would think that if the number of dealers is down it is because of demographics....most dealers skew OLDER and started their businesses in the 1970's or 1980's.

I'm surprised....unless she is well-off and doesn't need the $$$, I would think she'd be looking to get rid of the coins ASAP....unless she wants to keep working in the store because it keeps her occupied. Guess it would depend on her age.

Are you a collector or did somebody just give you a few random Morgan Dollars and you want to know if they are worth much more than $25 each ?

How active are you in collecting GSA Morgans ? Are you active online -- HA, Ebay, GC -- or do you go to shows or look in obscure places like Etsy and Craigslist ?

Curious if they have any thoughts on the state of the hobby....are new coin dealerships being formed...are existing ones reporting business is way up....are coin shows (local/regional/national) still seeing a post-pandemic surge.....etc.

If you want something that will grab people....raw gold nuggets juxtaposed with a brilliant gold proof coin definitely hits the "mine" and "mint" parts of the title. Good luck with the book, Roger. I'm curious how much work it will take to revise it compared to the original.

How about "From Mine To Mint 2: The Search For More Money" Spaceballs.....

Didn't you state in a back-and-forth on Saint proofs that the mirror-like proofs most of us who started collecting in the 1960's or 1970's associate with a "proof coin"....didn't commence until the 1930's ? Maybe it was somebody else.

From Wikipedia: "Part of the bank's required reserves were held in silver dollars, which provided the opportunity to profit from a rise in silver prices. The holdings, estimated to be 1.5 million silver dollars, was sold to a coin dealer to raise money in the early 1980s."