GoldFinger1969

You're telling us that gold went up in smoke.....vaporized....then re-constituted itself as gold flakes on houses across the street ? And they tracked down that minute amount ? Wow...unreal.

Yes, I'm waiting for one to show up here offering me authentic MS-65 Saints at $1,200 a pop.

Craig, what do you want to bet that not only does the coin NOT get the designation OR grade he seeks....but that he never posts again here and/or doesn't post with the TPG grade he receives ?

If someone states something that a bunch of people -- most of whom do not know one another and haven't met at all or many times and thus have no coordinated benefit to all taking 1 side of a debate -- "reek of envy"......couldn't it just be that they are RIGHT ?????

I have no doubt about that. But gold isn't asbestos so probably less damage via the unseen than just regular hazards.

So if you had 1,000 bars....could they weigh them all at once or maybe a few hundred at a time....and then know in the aggregate that they were up to spec...or did they do it bar-by-bar ?

Are you saying they actually measured the weight of ALL gold bars that were used in trade ? That must have been a huge PITA.

I think Mark is just not responding (any more) to THIS thread. I am sure he'll continue to post elsewhere. He better. Or else I'll sic Teddy (see avatar) on him.

Always value your expertise and opinions, Mark, so ALWAYS feel free to chime in ! Makes sense and I kinda agree. Thanks Mark !!

I think gold was about today's price back during FUN 2020 and I got the 1915-S MS-63 for like $1,650. Check out some LCS and maybe coin shows (if they are near you).

If a deal is fairly-priced for the coin and grade, the 3% isn't usually a deal-breaker. If a coin was raw it might be.

Wasn't that what Billy Ray Valentine told the limo driver in "Trading Places" ??

Would you think there's an incentive for that even if the price differential is minimal ? I'm talkinig common Saints in MS-62 and 63.

"Alternative asset class" would refer to anything other than traditional asset classes like stocks, bonds, cash/MMFs, precious metals, currencies, etc. So....baseball cards, NFTs, art, Kanye West , etc. etc.

IMO...if you have a good price the 3% isn't a deal-breaker. Especially for 1 or 2 coins that you really like. Now...if someone is buying 10-20 coins as a bullion subsitute, maybe that 3% and the other premium are more important. There's also something to be said for the value of the holder, which is at least $30 in materials and grading labor involved. Something to be said for NOT getting a modern bullion coin in those little soft plastic fold-overs.

On the subject of CAC stickers and submittances.....is there a reason people/dealers would send in common coins in low-MS for a CAC sticker ? I've seen a bunch of 62's and 63's lately with the green bean.

I think I said BE AWARE of it...but I said if the price was good and you were OK with the coin, the 3% differential at today's levels isn't a deal-breaker. Just be aware of it. It's about $60 less per coin if you sold it to my LCS than a modern bullion coin.

I usually disregard the gold differential since it's only 3% or so. But that's me. I posted above a bunch of Saints ending last Sunday went for mid-$1,900's including bp. Should be more this week and the rise in gold this week might not reflect the final bidding. These are at prices right now that keep the total cost under $2K: https://www.greatcollections.com/Coin/1255237/1908-Saint-Gaudens-Gold-Double-Eagle-No-Motto-PCGS-MS-63 https://www.greatcollections.com/Coin/1258659/1927-Saint-Gaudens-Gold-Double-Eagle-NGC-MS-63-CAC

The Forgotten Depression: It gets TOTALLY overlooked because it followed WWI, comes right before The Roaring Twenties, and 8 years later you have The Great Depression. But The Great Recession or even Depression of 1921 gets totally overlooked. Yet it was a unique downturn, unlike any other, in that wages and prices adjusted on their own and as a result James Grant (financial commentator and author) calls this book The Forgotten Depression: 1921: The Crash That Cured Itself. I had meant to get this book for years but re-reading RWB's section on The Roaring Twenties (Ch. 4) re-spurred me. https://www.amazon.com/Forgotten-Depression-Crash-Cured-Itself/dp/1451686463/ref=sr_1_3?crid=12UHGQFY7TG1K&keywords=james+grant&qid=1667662400&s=books&sprefix=james+grant%2Cstripbooks%2C135&sr=1-3 I need to read the book, but as a trained economist and former Fed Watcher, it is often said that prices and wages are sticky to the downside. I have to think that this "miracle adjustment" was aided by the fact that coming out of WW I less than 3 years later the U.S. was in the strongest position globally and this helped our competitive position and allowed for the adjustment process within the country to be much less painful than in other countries. You can see James Grant talk about his book on YouTube on CNBC and Bloomberg most likely. Prior to striking out on his own, he was the first CURRENT YIELD (column on interest rates) author for BARRON'S. Anyway....I thought this might be of interest to any Saint or Peace Dollar collectors of the early-1920's.

400 OZ. BARS: Does anybody know why the UK and US and most other nations used 400 ounce gold bars to settle trade during the Gold Standard era ? I'm just wondering why it wasn't a different number, like 100 ounces or 500 ounces.

Some of the NGC older holders I don't like but that's just me personally. I love many of their modern holders. If that made the hammer price $1,700 or so....then add in the 12.5% GC commission and you're just at over $1,900, so should be about what you're willing to pay. If the difference is $50-$75 or so, I think that's swallowable.

I thought "C" coins were just weak for the grades, the result of gradeflation.....nothing to do with details, alterations, dipping, etc.

I'll bet -- I could be wrong, but I'd be surprised -- that most of the anger about grading is where there is an inflection point about the price. When thousands of dollars (or more) are at stake, that's where people show passion. MS-64 and MS-65 for a gold coin with a $200 difference....who cares. MS-66 vs. MS-67 with $7,000 at stake....ka-ching.

I don't think anybody uses TPG prices except as a historical database. And quite frankly, actual sales prices or historical prices in archive history like HA is better. Best of all, for Saints, is RWB's DE book price matrices. The only thing I wonder about is if the high-prices you quote are all-in prices (including bp and/or liquidity premiums) and not just hammer prices. As I cited above, that differential is about 15-18% right now (high).

Mark, in your experience as a grader was there ever talk amongst the graders or TPG personnel that things had "changed" in a few years time with regard to overall grading standards, coins, etc. ? There had to have been articles or dealer-talk about stuff like that in the 1990's and early-2000's I would think.