Coinbuf

A bit late to my replies on this thread and to return to the original thrust of the thread I believe your statement is only partially correct. When JA first started CAC his goal was to find really nice, original, unmolested (or as close as can be) or "rare" coins that he would like to buy then resell to other dealers. The bean was a way for him to identify those coins as they would come to the market via auctions or be offered directly to him. Very quickly as more and more dealers and collectors started to submit to CAC the market adopted the A, B, C concept which was an easy concept for people to understand and accept. A coins being the cream of the crop and those he felt were undergraded are a mix of gold and green beans. The B coins are (in theory all green beaned) considered by JA as solid for the grade. The C coins being a mixture of coins that are correctly graded but more lower end of the grade, overgraded (in his opinion), and those straight graded coins with surface issues or that have been doctored. Once those CAC approved coins began to hit the market with dealers hyping them, collectors salivating over them, and both the PCGS and NGC registries recognizing those coins as better than average the market for these coins really took off and CAC became something other than the original intention. And while I do not know this for fact, I think it may have become difficult for JA to buy CAC beaned coins, at levels where he could then resell for a profit as the collector demand really drove up the prices. That last part is just speculation on my part but makes sense to me. To return to the first part of my reply, because JA was looking for coins to buy and resell, some coins that might not meet the A or B concept may have been beaned simply because he wanted to be able to identify those coins for buying not necessarily because it was a true A or B coin. For those who don't understand the original purpose of CAC it is those coins that may not look like an A or B coin but with a bean that confuse some collectors. This is an extension of my reply above, the answer is yes JA did indeed buy CAC coins as they came to market. Often through auction venues, but I do know a few collectors that have sold directly to JA. Something to keep in mind, JA has himself said that he is/was not the highest paying buyer, which makes sense as his goal was to buy then resell to dealers via the wholesale side of the business. So as CAC matured and the prices for beaned coins began to rise I would expect that fewer and fewer sold directly as it would have be smarter to sell your CAC beaned coins through an auction venue to realize the best selling price.

No big deal for me, I have never bought any coins from Legend or her auction company.

As already mentioned these are just harshly cleaned normal coins, not SMS and not worth the cost to submit.

The I of Liberty does not have enough raised metal to take a hit and displace that much metal without showing serious deformity of the initial I. The photo from the op shows the left side of the I to be full and distinct, and the area of extra metal between the I and B is raised to almost the same level (or above) as the I was when struck. It could not be that clear, distinct and raised from a hit to displace the amount of metal that is now in between the I and B. To move that much metal the I would have to have been obliterated, either extra metal was added to fake an error or it is a die chip.

I am also of the opinion that this was caused by a die chip that occurred next to the letter I, this (along with some wear and tear) gives the appearance of a different letter.

That would be correct under technical grading, however, it is less true under the current market grading that the TPG's use. Under market grading the TPG's will grade on a curve (so to speak) and will/have given coins from years or mints that are known for weak strike issues grades that are higher than they should have received under technical grading.

I would be very hesitant to use a tool that is meant for use on a power tool to polish automotive wheels, it would be very easy to catch the edge of a slab and sling that at high speed into a wall possibly injuring yourself or another and breaking the slab. And if anyone takes the time to read the thread I linked you will see that it is quite possible to remove even very deep scratches with the use of sandpaper and the plastix product. Naturally any slab that has so much damage that the integrity of the plastic slab has been compromised should be sent in for a reholder.

I have read several reports ats of people that have been able to read a PCGS tag with their smartphone while still inside some shipping packaging. This brings up the question, would having an RFID tag in your slabs make your coins more at risk of theft from a shipping agent than a slab without such a tag. The only thing the tag does is bring up the TPG website/registry via that TPG's app, does that really help you or does it help the TPG more?

@GoldFinger1969 I don't follow Saints, but ultra gems in any series can have wild swings in value that depend less on guides and more on the coin itself. Yes you can buy MS67's for less than guide prices, currently PCGS coinfacts shows a guide price of $9,000 but most recent non CAC beaned auctions are selling for less than the guide price. But how do you decide how much the bean affects prices, again looking at only coinfacts there has been only one CAC approved coin to sell (an MS68 graded PCGS coin) and that was back in 2020 before prices were run well up. So while the CAC guide price of $16,200 for an MS67 may be a bit high (just as the PCGS guide price is high), it is difficult to pin down pricing on an item that is seldom seen in the marketplace. Keep in mind there likely have been other sales, perhaps at GC or private sales, I only looked quickly at coinfacts for some fast data points as I don't collect Saints and don't follow pricing trends for the series.

An old thread with Product information and some helpful tips. NGC slabs are more difficult to work with than PCGS slabs are, different plastic. Link

I hope everyone has a merry Christmas and a happy new year! Be safe everyone!

@LILpitik the 1878CC in your op looks to grade in the AU range and I personally would give it a details grade due to that staple scratch on the obv cheek. The only thing going for it is it does appear to be genuine; I do not follow pricing for damaged coins so I will refrain from quoting a price. I will say that the obv scratch would be an automatic pass for me. If it were to slide into an MS grade it would be MS61 at best. This is my PCGS MS64 example for comparison. While at first glance my coin may look a bit rough the lines in front of the obv bust are toning streaks not contact marks. Notice the difference in the cotton bolls on my coin to the one you posted. Notice the lack of scruffiness in the fields on both the obv and rev of my coin but not the one you posted. Anytime you see wear and contact marks in the fields the chances are very high of a circulated grade at the major grading companies like NGC.

It is not a windfall, it is self insurance against the eventual payout for the grading guarantee. If you are the TPG that has to eat an expensive coin because the graders missed something; and this has happened; you have to have the monies to make the payout or you will be out of business.

Beware stock photos, this is a common tactic for ebay sellers who have hundreds or thousands of these to sell and don't want to photograph each one.

Opinions will vary, but my opinion closely emulates what @powermad5000 and @Fenntucky Mike wrote. These are just gimmicks to try and differentiate what is the same old same old ASE. Take it out of the holder and you have $25 worth of silver, so is the holder worth $500+ to you? It is not to me but without a doubt it is to some.

If the coin has visible marks I would agree with @Fenntucky Mike that it would be a waste of money to resubmit. I don't collect or submit modern coins so I have no specific observations to report, but I can say that I have read complaints on multiple forums of issues similar to yours with the op's claiming that the issue happened while at a TPG. And I do not say this to be mean but if you did not take good clear large photos of the coins prior to submitting it's a case of he said she said.

I don't think it has anything to do with the CAC startup, just coincidence. I think the covid boom is starting to fade, not gone but it has lessened and is putting some pressure on pricing in some areas where some buyers may have "paid up" and are now having a tough time finding a buyer.

Always follow the money, and while I'm sure that CACG is expecting to be a profit center, I also think that JA does consider the collector in overall scheme of his operation, something that I am not sure I can say is true for large companies owned by wall street. One of the reasons that JA has stated he wanted to start a CAC grading service was to cut some of the expense for average collectors. Before CACG you had to send to TPG XYZ, then send to CAC stickering (assuming you want the sticker), CACG is meant to be a one stop shop where you can have your coins graded to the same standards as CAC stickering without the extra shipping costs and risk of loss. I am not at all certain why you would choose to use a MAC sticker in the same breath as a CAC sticker, or even a Grif sticker. MAC has no value in the marketplace except for the suckers that he finds on ebay that don't know any better and pay up for his inferior coins. I know of no serious collector that would give weight or value to a MAC sticker. And while you may not know any collectors who do, there are many collectors that will pass on very high grade and/or expensive coins (like your MS67+* DPL example) without a CAC sticker under the rational that such a coin must have already failed at CAC. If you have a collection of any significant value, it is important to understand there are many collectors who value the holder and/or the sticker more than the coin, like it or not that is the reality of the current coin market especially true for coins in the grades of MS65 or higher. As you move down in grades to lower MS and circulated grades a CAC sticker may be of less value but might result in a faster sale, which has a value in and of itself. No one has to have an interest, but it is wise to understand that even if you have no interest and do not value a sticker or holder there are collectors that do. And because there are many that do; having or not having the sticker can make a big value difference when you or your heirs sell. You may not care now, but someday you might have a different perspective on this, or perhaps your heirs will wish that you had. Something that many who poo-poo the CAC sticker don't realize is just how valuable that sticker can be in helping many collectors to not buy over graded and doctored coins; not everyone has the time or ability to become an expert grader. Perhaps you know how to identify every single doctored coin in a straight graded TPG holder, but you would be a very rare individual as many, myself included, cannot every time. The fact that there are coins with surface issues out in the marketplace is exactly why a second opinion has value. If your doctor told you tomorrow that you were going to die in two weeks from some rare disease, would you just accept that as gospel or would you want a second confirming opinion. I think that most would choose to have a second opinion before they start picking out a casket, CAC is that second opinion.

I would say that my experience is the polar opposite of yours when it comes to CAC. Almost every CAC graded or stickered coin I have and the vast majority of those I have viewed are superior to a high percentage of those of the same grade in other brands or without stickers. And so far, a high percentage of CAC stickered and graded coins have asking prices or realized auction prices that are in excess of standard guide prices. Certainly, anyone can find a few examples of stickered or graded CAC coins that have not outperformed the guides but as an overall those are the outliers not the norm. And I would say that most experienced collectors would indeed be (and are) willing to pay a premium for CAC graded and stickered coins, why do I think that, simple, those coins are so often superior to the vast majority of the usual tired and stale material in the market that continues to circulate between dealers and collectors. Superior coins almost always bring strong prices, that is why CAC stickered coins have performed so well in the past and why CAC graded coins are doing well now. Its the less educated, "bargain" buyers that are not willing to step up and pay for quality.

Welcome to the forum, yes the bottom two fingers do seem odd. This could be due to die chips, insufficient metal flow (perhaps due to a partial die fill) and another slightly less likely possibility is reflection interference from the mint plastic packaging.

If this were a product of the US mint I would say MD 100%. However I am not at all familiar with the minting process in South Africa, so it's quite possible that could be a true DD depending on the processes and equipment used in South Africa.

It appears to be a heavily damaged and harshly cleaned coin, many collectors would not want that in their collection even at that discounted cost. This is just my personal opinion, but I would not pay over $50 (roughly 40 euros), but I live in the US and I do not know the market for items like this where you live. As to the real vs fake question, I do not see any obvious signs of it being a counterfeit, the weight is within tolerance for a circulated coin, and this is not one of the dates/mm's that is commonly seen as a counterfeit.

Very nice coins and a wonderful inheritance gift from your grandfather. As you have been researching you know that all three are common dates so no significant numismatic values over the spot gold values for any of the three. The 1900 double eagle is a melt value only coin due to the jewelry mount damage of $2,050, both of the eagles are high AU to possibly low MS grades (difficult to judge the luster in your photos) so I'd peg the values of those at $1,100 each. Welcome to the forum.

Great set, congrats!