Storage Question 1 1

[Rob’s Coins]

I’m starting to get a few coins and mint sets that I’ld like to break open.  I’m trying to get a game plan on how best to store them.  Been looking at Whitman and intercept, they seem like good products.  Mainly collecting US coins post 50’s to pass on to nieces and nephews.  I don’t know yet how to spot a PF-70 but I hypothetically want to put a coin into storage and hope that one day when I’m versed enough to determine grades it will not have changed.

With some of my regular coins I’ve tried 2x2 flips in a folder.  I’ve tried capsules in a plastic, I’ve tried the folders with the sliding window.  Not a fan of flips.  I like the capsules but not the fact that they are stored in a box and can’t look at them.  Really like the folders with the sliding windows BUT it seems you have to push on the face to get them in there and seems bad for proofs to be doing this. Even gentle with gloves.  Really was ultimately looking for a capsule book so I can use the capsules which I like but display them in a way that I can arrange them nice to look at and be able to pick one out easy for inspection.   Hope I clarified my every desire.  Anything in a reputable product to fit my needs or advice about storage devices?

Edited January 21 by Rob’s Coins

[JKK]

If you break open mint sets and put them in an album, you just about might as well spend the coins. They will no longer be uncirculated, and if proofs, will immediately become impaired proofs. You won't have to worry about any PF-70s at all because the mishandling will assure you never have a chance of obtaining that grade. It's like moving to LA hoping to date a starlet without bathing--no need to worry about how you dress, as it's not going to happen from the go. All the people who know how to get them safely into albums know not to do that.

My suggestion is you don't break up any mint sets until you develop improved handling methods. Albums are not for uncirculated coins.

[Rob’s Coins]

I hear what you’re saying.  What is nice is that some of the new silver products from the mint are already coming in capsules.  You would think that album companies would take advantage of this.  Seems like I’m the future they are making it much easier for collectors.

[EagleRJO]

On 1/21/2024 at 9:47 AM, Rob’s Coins said:

... mint sets that I’ld like to break open

Don't ... leave the mint sets and proofs in the OGP.

On 1/21/2024 at 9:47 AM, Rob’s Coins said:

Really like the folders with the sliding windows

That's what I use for all my circulated modern coins from change or rolls.  But not for proofs, uncirculated coins, or more valuable coins due to the potential for slide marks from the clear plastic sheet that slip over the coins.

I prefer the Littleton 3-ring binder like albums with the insert pages that have clear sliding sheets.  They are well made, have the clear sheets on both sides of insert pages for viewing, are expandable with generic insert sheets, and albums for coin series have convenient labels on the spine so you can see what it is when kept on a bookcase.

The coins seem to fit really good in the Littleton album holes.  Due to the good fit only light pressure is required to ensure coins are set slightly below the holes (important) before sliding the clear sheets over the coins, but a tight enough fit to hold the coins in place.  This avoids the issue of causing slide marks on coins from slipping the clear sheets over the coins, as long as the side with coins set below holes is the only one used.

On 1/21/2024 at 9:47 AM, Rob’s Coins said:

Really was ultimately looking for a capsule book so I can use the capsules which I like but display them in a way that I can arrange them nice to look at and be able to pick one out easy for inspection.

For capsules I use the large Lighthouse ENCAP storage binders that come with slipcases.  You can get various size binders and semi-rigid clear plastic insert sheets that hold a good amount of various diameter capsules, which are still easy to view.  They are not cheap, but less than say Intercept Shield holders or individual slabs, and are very well made.

With the large size binders (e.g Lighthouse Grande Giant/G binders with ENCAP pages) they can hold quite a lot of capsules, or about 300 smaller coin capsules per binder.  In addition they look really nice (a little like old leather bound books), so I also use them for more valuable coins or sets of better slabbed coins.

Wizard Coin Supply carries a good selection of the binders and ENCAP insert pages for either capsules or slabs.

Lighthouse Grande Giant/G Binders - Wizard Coin Supply

Lighthouse ENCAP Semi-rigid Insert Sheets - Wizard Coin Supply

Edited January 23 by EagleRJO

[Coinbuf]

Your best option for proper storage is to leave the mint and proof sets alone, store them in a cool dry place and use several desiccant packets.   The binders that eagle posted are a good option for mint coins that already come in the plastic capsules.

[Sandon]

   I agree that government issued sets should be kept in their original packaging, which protects the coins they contain, provides evidence of their authenticity, and is part of their historical context.  If you want to store the coins in a safe deposit box or home safe, the pieces issued in capsules can be stored in their capsules separately from the rest of the packaging to save space and the rest of the packaging stored elsewhere.

   If you store any coins in albums, be very careful to insert them deeply enough that the top slide does not rub against the coin. This can result in patches of minute scratches on the coins known as "slide marks" that are unsightly and devaluing.

[Rob’s Coins]

Great advice thanks. Follow-up question… let’s say in the year 2224 someone finds that only the Kennedy is worth value and wants to sell it.  (Best method). Do they have to send the complete mint set in and have all coins graded or can they just say, grade the Kennedy only and send the rest back in capsules or whatever?

[Sandon]

   

On 1/21/2024 at 12:00 PM, Rob’s Coins said:

let’s say in the year 2224 someone finds that only the Kennedy is worth value and wants to sell it.  (Best method). Do they have to send the complete mint set in and have all coins graded or can they just say, grade the Kennedy only and send the rest back in capsules or whatever?

    It would be entirely speculative to render an opinion as to how coins may be collected and sold 200 years from now!  A collector from 1824 might have similarly asked which type of wooden coin cabinet collectors would be using to store their coins in 2024. When I began collecting in the early 1970s, no one foresaw the existence of third- party grading services that encapsulate small coins in large, bulky holders or that "grading" a coin would refer to submitting the coin to one of these services instead of consulting a grading guide or using one's own knowledge and experience to grade the coin oneself.

   If you're referring to current practices, if you wanted only the one coin in a set third-party graded, you would only submit that one coin. NGC offers "multi-coin" holders that house an entire proof or similar set, but these are only available for pre-approved "bulk submissions" of numerous such sets. See NGC Coin Holders | Holders for Coin Protection | NGC. For instructions on submitting coins to NGC, which I don't recommend unless you have sufficient grading and related skills to determine that the individual coins in your submission are worth at least several hundred dollars each, see the various topics under the "Submit" tab on the NGC home page.

   

   

[powermad5000]

Always remember, once you break open the original packaging from ANY coin from any place, you expose it to possible contaminants and possible mishandling. I agree with the others to keep your coins in their original packaging at least until you have a full grasp of everything it would take to attempt to be successful at such and endeavor.

I would not worry about 200 years from now. You and I and everyone on this forum will all be dead. We are merely the custodians of coinage while it is in our possession. The best thing to do is to be a good custodian and handle and store these coins to the best of our knowledge and ability.

[Rob’s Coins]

That it sound advise.  Starting to get a little frustrated there….  I feel if they can authenticate a Roman coin in the ground for 1000 years, something tells me they could authenticate a penny without the original plastic and glue that will likely crumble in 200 years.   I also find it interesting how a lot of people are all about the toning.  I bought some older proof sets.  1950’s.  No, I didn’t break them out.  But also no toning.  Confusing hobby at times.  Trying to learn the rules.

[JKK]

On 1/21/2024 at 1:40 PM, Rob’s Coins said:

That it sound advise.  Starting to get a little frustrated there….  I feel if they can authenticate a Roman coin in the ground for 1000 years, something tells me they could authenticate a penny without the original plastic and glue that will likely crumble in 200 years.   I also find it interesting how a lot of people are all about the toning.  I bought some older proof sets.  1950’s.  No, I didn’t break them out.  But also no toning.  Confusing hobby at times.  Trying to learn the rules.

It's not about authentication. If I may speak bluntly, as a specialist in those same Roman coins you mention, nearly none of the modern stuff is worth counterfeiting. It is about how well the coins are protected from mishandling. What you described earlier translated to me as: "Hi. I plan to mishandle these coins and have zero idea what I'm doing. What do you suggest?" If you were in my place, seeing it as I see it, I suggest you'd say: "First, please don't mishandle them"--much as I did.

Now. If they come encased in archival grade plastic that you have an album that will handle, great; go for it. But when you talked about PR-70s, and described actions that could be guaranteed to make that grade impossible, that told me that your greatest need was serious help understanding how best to safeguard and store your coins. And since you have gotten plenty, you should now be well equipped to decide what to do--whether that's to just f-bomb them up by putting them in slider albums, or develop a better solution. In the end they are your coins, to preserve or damage as you choose.

Side note: the standard for PR-69 involves (among other specs) a full strike, unimpaired and gorgeous fully original luster, beautiful eye appeal, and one tiny flaw that it takes a 5x loupe to spot. For PR-70, it's similar except that even with that loupe you can't spot one tiny flaw. That would make it a perfect coin. You could see, then, why my reaction would be along the lines of: "Well, won't have to worry about any PR-70s coming out of these--at least not once they're out and have been shoved into albums."

[Rob’s Coins]

Hey JKk,  yeah, as a new person it’s hard to even formulate my thought correctly on what I’m trying to achieve.  I know when I sometimes ask what I think is a simple question and make a statement about PF-70.  You guys with 50 years experience have minds that are computing 120 variables looking for the most logical and best outcome for the coins.  I’m sticking with my proof silver 1oz coins for now.  Every time I try to dip my toes into what I think would be easier… small cents with large mintage figures, I seem to get sidetracked and thrown sideways.  They are just so “blah” in those mint set holders.  But that is where they will stay for now.  

[JKK]

On 1/21/2024 at 3:27 PM, Rob’s Coins said:

Hey JKk,  yeah, as a new person it’s hard to even formulate my thought correctly on what I’m trying to achieve.  I know when I sometimes ask what I think is a simple question and make a statement about PF-70.  You guys with 50 years experience have minds that are computing 120 variables looking for the most logical and best outcome for the coins.  I’m sticking with my proof silver 1oz coins for now.  Every time I try to dip my toes into what I think would be easier… small cents with large mintage figures, I seem to get sidetracked and thrown sideways.  They are just so “blah” in those mint set holders.  But that is where they will stay for now.  

I get it--it's hard to keep track of everything, and some of the responses can conflict. But that's why we're doing this: It allows you to get help collecting coins, preserving them, and displaying them. We most of us grew up with Whitman albums, maybe with Dansco slider albums, and in youth we were just filling up the pennies and Jeffs. Then we grew up, got jobs, in some cases took long breaks from the hobby, and returned to it. Our appetites shifted, and we learned that a Whitman album (for example) is fine for circulated cents but not so fine for MS-65 09-VDBs. We adapted.

There are archival grade holders for proof and mint sets, if you don't like the mint packaging or if you determine that it's from a time before the mint realized that its packaging would cause harm in the long term. Both fair reasons. But the process of getting the coins from cellophane to holders--with proofs and uncs, that's the rub. So now that we've told you how to do it wrong, here's a way you could do it right. Note that this won't help you album proof or unc coins because doing so is damaging, but it will let you display your stuff in a way you might like.

Imagine you've got a proof set in mint cellophane. You should have pliers, scissors, a clean cloth such as a brand new washcloth (I can think of reasons to consider other surfaces, but that's what I've used), a box cutter or small penknife, plastic coin tongs, disposable linen gloves, and if it's easier, what I call leprechaun condoms: fingertip covers that look like dinky little balloons. None of that is expensive.

• Shop for the type of holder that you find most aesthetically appealing that has the right spaces for the set you want to display. If you want to create an insert, make that before you begin any of this.
• Open the new holder if necessary. Be gentle. Lay it out on the clean cloth and determine which side is the one you want to be the reverse.
• Put the linen gloves on. From here on out you will be very, very careful what you touch with those.
• Lay the set on the cloth and cut away enough of the penny's cellophane that you can get at it with the coin tongs; the reason you are wearing the gloves is what if you drop the coin on the cloth and need to pick it up, or something else occurs that you must guide it more finely? In the middle of the operation is not a good time to have to adjust without proper preparation.
• Tong the penny out, getting just enough purchase on it to keep hold. Do everything over the cloth, just in case you drop it. It happens.
• Lay the penny in its holder niche, gently, as close to proper orientation as possible. You would rather not have to nudge-rotate it with the tongs. The coins have an annoying way of landing in the niches ever so slightly out of alignment.
• Do the same for the nickel, taking all the same care, and for the rest of the coins. You will be preventing them from being touched with human hands, and ideally by not dropping them on the cloth will avoid picking up a fiber.
• Once you are pleased with the coins' alignment, gazing beautifully up at you from their holder, you can take off the gloves. Lay the holder's other half on top of it, carefully oriented. Most holders sort of snap together with plastic tongues going into slots. You cannot imagine how easy it is to crack these damned things, so be very careful. Gently press them together, hoping for a good tight seal, ideally with just your hands.
• If it's stubborn, now some fun begins. Triple up the gloves to pad where you will squeeze with the pliers, and very gently attempt to close the connections with light pressure. Periodically look to see where the halves are not quite tightened together and work gently. Take your time, because if you break the clear plastic you will need to live with it or go through all this again with a new holder.

If you were gentle and patient, and didn't f-bomb it up (ask me how I learned this), and if the holder was well made, you will eventually have your proof coins in a beautiful display well protected from everything but airborne contaminants. I've never heard of people doing this, but I suppose that a very fine line of adhesive gently pressed into the juncture around 100% of the seam would seal it hermetically if done with precision. Why the knife? In case for whatever reason you find you must pry it back open. It happens.

Or you could just leave them in the mint packing until you're psychologically ready to tackle the process. When the time comes, start with a very recent set of the kind that are dirt cheap and even commoner than dirt, the ones that coin dealers can barely give away (they have two dozen from each year of the 1990s sitting in back of the shop) and that everyone's Bampaw thought would be Very Valuable. Most of them can be had for less than five bucks. Practice makes perfect. It helps a lot if you've gone through the ritual once or twice. Like the proper tools, cheap protection/insurance.

Edited January 22 by JKK

[Rob’s Coins]

Wow, thank you for your procedure!  Much appreciated!  
 

OK NGC team, hear me out, I would like a service to send in a Mint set for say $25 - $30 and have your professionals do this and send me back my coins in capsules ungraded.  Then work with a reputable coin album company to ensure the capsules you use will fit nicely in the album I purchase from you.

[Halbrook Family]

I put together a Ike set from Uncirculated sets. Most of those years the sets were very cheap. $4 to $10. For some reason the P dimes and Pennies were in bad shape. The Ike set isn't worth a huge deal though. 1971 - 1978. Some of the other coins were nice upgrades for my half and quarter books. I bought raw nickels and put them in a dansco book. I would not pull apart any of the silver mint sets though I did pull apart a few blue envelope Ike's.I just recently started to buy slabbed coins. No I'd never break a slabbed coin out. I got a set of 1957 - 1964 mint uncirculated and mint sets and 1992 to 2020 mint silver sets. (missing 2012) 

[Halbrook Family]

On 1/22/2024 at 5:26 AM, Rob’s Coins said:

Wow, thank you for your procedure!  Much appreciated!  
 

OK NGC team, hear me out, I would like a service to send in a Mint set for say $25 - $30 and have your professionals do this and send me back my coins in capsules ungraded.  Then work with a reputable coin album company to ensure the capsules you use will fit nicely in the album I purchase from you.

I think they charge $50 a coin to grade. 

[JKK]

On 1/22/2024 at 5:26 AM, Rob’s Coins said:

Wow, thank you for your procedure!  Much appreciated!  
 

OK NGC team, hear me out, I would like a service to send in a Mint set for say $25 - $30 and have your professionals do this and send me back my coins in capsules ungraded.  Then work with a reputable coin album company to ensure the capsules you use will fit nicely in the album I purchase from you.

I don't think they offer that service, and especially not for that price. I suppose you could hire a professional numismatist, but you aren't getting that service for that price from anyone qualified to do it. The reason we do a lot of things ourselves in this hobby, and learn to do so, is partly because we'd rather buy coins than plastic but partly also because the services don't always exist or would be prohibitive.

[Halbrook Family]

Is there something made that holds a mint set in. The 1960's 1970's envelopes and also the newer silver box sets? I know there is a dansco book that is for mint sets but that's a bit much. 

[EagleRJO]

On 1/22/2024 at 7:15 PM, edhalbrook said:

Is there something made that holds a mint set in. The 1960's 1970's envelopes and also the newer silver box sets? I know there is a dansco book that is for mint sets but that's a bit much. 

@Mr.Bill347 initially put his mint set collection in cigar boxes, keeping them in the OGP, and then switched to Intercept Shield storage boxes to better protect them.  A little overkill, but he sleeps better at night.  And if it hasn't been hammered home yet leave the mint sets in the OGP, unless you picked it up for one of the coins to go in a collection you are working on.

On 1/22/2024 at 8:26 AM, Rob’s Coins said:

OK NGC team, hear me out, I would like a service to send in a Mint set for say $25 - $30 and have your professionals do this and send me back my coins in capsules ungraded.  Then work with a reputable coin album company to ensure the capsules you use will fit nicely in the album I purchase from you.

Never going to happen for that price and would end up costing you more than the coins are worth.  And it's still not clear why you are stuck on taking the coins out of the mint set cases or packaging.

And in a very short period of time most collectors feel completely comfortable just ordering whatever capsules and albums they need, and in no time have their coins stored the way they like them.  Even better when you do this as the collection progress instead of waiting until you accumulate a lot of coins to then put in holders.  Been there, done that, have the tee shirt. 

[Rob’s Coins]

On 1/22/2024 at 8:15 PM, EagleRJO said:

And it's still not clear why you are stuck on taking the coins out of the mint set cases or packaging.

I didn’t really want to drag this post along.  I like most are probably tired of this thread and I even started it for gosh sakes!  
There were a few questions I was trying to find out.  And a few things about me I didn’t include.  
1st I love proofs coins. Something about never seeing one when I was young.  
2nd Even though I’m not looking to profit I enjoy working a mint set like a Buisness puzzle.  If all proofs in the set were PF60 it would be worth X. If all in the set were in PF70 would be worth Y.  According to the probability based on census data the random price would be Z.  Bell curve census data. Seems interesting for some reason.

3rd A proof mint set from the mint right now is $35.  I picked up proof mint sets from 1968 to 1998 for $238.70.  Fast track this collecting thing.   
4th not a fan of mint sets :-)   would like to look at all the coins by denomination like I did as a kid in my book sets.

5th even though I want them that way cause maybe I’m just strange. Still respect the coins and others and realize that there are only 500,000 of some of these sets made.  Some Uneducated people already busted 90% of them up doing crazy things like taking a few they want and dumping the rest in Change or selling them in flips.  Or just taking them out to look at them.
6th just learning, having fun.  Hoping ultimately you guys already looked over these sets five times before I bought them on eBay so…. What the heck…

All of my questions were answered with a little carful directing of the thread to keep it going the direction I wanted.  :-).  

Edited January 23 by Rob’s Coins
MS to PF

[EagleRJO]

On 1/21/2024 at 11:44 AM, Coinbuf said:

The binders that eagle posted are a good option for mint coins that already come in the plastic capsules

You can also use them for raw coins you put in capsules or slabs.  I use the Lighthouse ENCAP binders for my completed all date/mark/strike BU/PF Presidential and Innovation dollar sets (one Giant/G binder per set).

I put the coins in capsules since they are all gem BU or gem PF grade and was afraid of slide marks with the typical albums used for these.  A little overkill for modern coins, but I really like the way they came out.

I also use them for my all date/mark circulation set of slabbed Morgans (two G binders almost complete), as well as my gold coin collection which I put in after-market slabs (in a gold colored binder of course ).

They are really well made, convenient, and look really nice.  Other than the Morgans and gold coins, which go in a safe or deposit box, I keep them on a bookcase along with the Littleton slide albums I use for sets of modern circulated coins.

It's really easily to just grab one and flip through it occasionally or add a coin.  I like them so much I plan to move my in-progress pre-1930's half dollar slabbed one-per-year date set to the Lighthouse ENCAP binders one of these days also.

Edited January 25 by EagleRJO

[J P M]

On 1/22/2024 at 7:15 PM, edhalbrook said:

Is there something made that holds a mint set in. The 1960's 1970's envelopes and also the newer silver box sets? I know there is a dansco book that is for mint sets but that's a bit much. 

If you have a bad coin in a proof or mint set, you could by the five-coin Whitman holder to put the good ones in. I have coins in proof sets that were fogged when I got them and that is where they will stay. It is still safer than the 5 pc set.

Edited January 23 by J P M

[Mr.Bill347]

I have all of the proof sets from 1955-2023. Not a single set is toned, discolored, or fogged. I chose reasonably  pricy Intercept shield boxes. Which are supposed to help prevent such discoloration, fogging etc. the boxes close tightly and pretty much eliminate air infiltration plus all sets are in their OGP. Time will tell, I guess. Like you, Rob, I love proof sets! I don’t plan on breaking them up, submitting them for grading or anything other than saving them for my grandchildren. I bought six boxes and about $17 each for the sets. 

[EagleRJO]

On 1/23/2024 at 12:42 PM, Mr.Bill347 said:

Like you, Rob, I love proof sets!

I get all of the modern dollar coin strikes and didn't go full bore on the annual proof mint sets like you did.  I think the proof ASEs would be the only set I really have that is just proofs.  But I canceled my mint subscription for those coins due to the quality tanking.  Oh well, so much for that one.

On 1/23/2024 at 12:42 PM, Mr.Bill347 said:

I bought six boxes and about $17 each for the sets ... I don’t plan on breaking them up

I assume that's an average price per set, as if I remember correctly you didn't buy them all together.  Some are like few bucks at a thrift store and some of the older ones or more recent extensive ones are a lot more.  The intercept boxes were probably more than most of the individual sets.   

But good plan to keep them in the OGP cases.  I can't count the number of times I have heard people talk about issues with mint sets, and it turns out they broke the sets up and took them out of the cases.

On 1/23/2024 at 8:04 AM, J P M said:

If you have a bad coin in a proof or mint set, you could by the five-coin Whitman holder to put the good ones in. I have coins in proof sets that have fogged and that is where they will stay. It is still safer than the 5 pc set.

What happened to cropping photos.   

[J P M]

On 1/23/2024 at 2:08 PM, EagleRJO said:

I get all of the modern dollar coin strikes and didn't go full bore on the annual proof mint sets like you did.  I think the proof ASEs would be the only set I really have that is just proofs.  But I canceled my mint subscription for those coins due to the quality tanking.  Oh well, so much for that one.

I assume that's an average price per set, as if I remember correctly you didn't buy them all together.  Some are like few bucks at a thrift store and some of the older ones or more recent extensive ones are a lot more.  The intercept boxes were probably more than most of the individual sets.   

But good plan to keep them in the OGP cases.  I can't count the number of times I have heard people talk about issues with mint sets, and it turns out they broke the sets up and took them out of the cases.

What happened to cropping photos.   

I would have cropped it, if it was a new shot but it was an old file picture, and it uploaded the way it was.

[Halbrook Family]

On 1/23/2024 at 5:04 AM, J P M said:

If you have a bad coin in a proof or mint set, you could by the five-coin Whitman holder to put the good ones in. I have coins in proof sets that were fogged when I got them and that is where they will stay. It is still safer than the 5 pc set.

 

I meant to keep the sets in their original package. A small clear box that holds the set. Dansco has a mint set book. Pricey and you can only get about four sets in there.