CREDTO51 Posted November 6, 2023 Share Posted November 6, 2023 I was listing coins for sale on eBay and ran across this rare coin. The obverse has a nasty gash in the Indians head. Any advice on grade would be appreciated, thanks Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dprince1138 Posted November 6, 2023 Share Posted November 6, 2023 (edited) Right off hand, the 3 1/2 leg detail seems to be a bit off. For example, the hoof is not visible. Also, there seems to be damage to both fore legs. As for grade, my opinion would be Fine, with the caveat of the perceived damage. Edited November 6, 2023 by dprince1138 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CREDTO51 Posted November 6, 2023 Author Share Posted November 6, 2023 Here’s a better picture, thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J P M Posted November 6, 2023 Share Posted November 6, 2023 Details coin with all that damage. Not worth any premium in my book. Sandon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dprince1138 Posted November 6, 2023 Share Posted November 6, 2023 I cannot seem to find this item on ebay, at least not in the US-Errors section. Are you thinking about purchasing the item? You may want to compare prices with similar conditions and grade. The concern that I have is the overall condition of the lower fore legs. Here is a 1936-D 3 leg with a grade of fine. Regardless, good luck with the path that you choose! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CREDTO51 Posted November 6, 2023 Author Share Posted November 6, 2023 Thanks again, I was kind of going off pricing of this example. I’m also aware that 5here maybe up to 134 examples of this coin. Maybe sending it in would be prudent for myself and and prospective buyers. Thanks Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dprince1138 Posted November 6, 2023 Share Posted November 6, 2023 If you do have the coin in hand, then it may be prudent, as you say. Depending upon the service provider and research options, the service price seems to be between $40 and $59. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CREDTO51 Posted November 6, 2023 Author Share Posted November 6, 2023 I do have the coin , I was going to list a group of six Buffalo coins yesterday. And was unaware of the history of this coin. We immediately received an offer minutes after listing. This of course sent a red flag and caused further research. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dprince1138 Posted November 6, 2023 Share Posted November 6, 2023 Congratulations on the find! The odd opinion on this board seems to be that if a coin is found and the coin has a higher value than was purchased for, then it is morally offensive to sell the coin for its true value. CREDTO51 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CREDTO51 Posted November 6, 2023 Author Share Posted November 6, 2023 I’ve noticed that as well. Being a card/comic/gun / vinyl collector… I would never sell at cost. I did find the response to the value of grading was very diverse. dprince1138 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dprince1138 Posted November 6, 2023 Share Posted November 6, 2023 For one thing, I suppose it depends on the overall condition of the coin, for example, the large scratch on the obverse may reduce the top value for the grade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CREDTO51 Posted November 6, 2023 Author Share Posted November 6, 2023 @dprince … that is a gouge IMHO …. I would have never thought of any value before the instantaneous eBay offer. But rarity in collectibles has proven profitable in my other hobbies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dprince1138 Posted November 6, 2023 Share Posted November 6, 2023 True. Depending on the coin and attributes, collectors would consider acquiring a coin for a collection or resell, regardless of damage of that magnitude. Also, you reminded me about how many collectors will always include the term "Rare" on a coin, simply because it is old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenntucky Mike Posted November 6, 2023 Share Posted November 6, 2023 I'm not 100% sure that it is a 3-1/2 leg buff, hard to tell in the pics but the upper half of the leg seems more well defined than the lower half, I would expect that the leg should be more uniform in appearance. There is also some damage in that area which could be affecting the look of the leg. If better pics can be provided it may help others make a determination. The coin looks to be in low VF condition and it is a details piece due to the gouges on the obv. Still, a nice find if authentic. Maybe take this to a local coin shop/dealer or coin show, if there is one near you, to get an in hand opinion on it. The coin would be worth having graded and authenticated by a TPG, if you are reasonably certain that it is a 3-1/2 leg. dprince1138 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coinbuf Posted November 6, 2023 Share Posted November 6, 2023 If you want to maximize the sales price you will need to have it authenticated, most savvy buyers will consider a raw key or high value coin as suspect if not in a TPG holder due to the numerous fakes in the market. That is not to say that there are not buyers that will not buy a raw example, but most of those buyers are looking for a "deal" or a rip as many call it. The damage to the reverse of the coin will greatly reduce the value of the coin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenstang Posted November 6, 2023 Share Posted November 6, 2023 (edited) Deleted, not thinking and gave wrong info. Edited November 6, 2023 by Greenstang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powermad5000 Posted November 6, 2023 Share Posted November 6, 2023 Please be advised @CREDTO51, that poster @dprince1138 has given incorrect information in this and other threads and also does not speak for me. Your cost to submit this coin as a single coin submission would come out to nearly $120 after shipping, grading fees, variety plus fees, and return shipping costs. I am also not sure from the photo you provided whether this is a legit 3 legged 1936 D or if this is the end result of a weakly struck Buffalo with a lot of wear. Perhaps a better lit photo would help on here. Being the coin has some heavy damage that you are aware of, I would expect the value of this coin even as a details grade to fall into the G range due to the damage involved. I would take this coin to a local dealer for an in hand analysis and additional opinion. I have included a photo from NGC's VarietyPlus page for your comparison. There should be a faint remnant of the leg without disturbance to the metal in the area. Your coin will be harder to tell as there is damage in that area which also adds degree for further inspection to make sure that damage is not part of an alteration. Hoghead515 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleRJO Posted November 6, 2023 Share Posted November 6, 2023 (edited) I agree that the coin is likely not the 1936-D 5C 3-1/2 Leg variety. It looks like the coin is just worn, damaged or altered to have the appearance of part of the bison's right foreleg missing in the area identified with arrows above. This variety was the result of over-polishing the die to remove erosion lines, and other indicators or affected areas besides right at the arrow do not look like a match to me. I would do some more research, like looking at the NGC VarietyPlus image, and more carefully examine the coin in-hand before you drop around $100 or so on a submittal. And what dprince1138 is doing is completely different. He is not asking about varieties, he is simply flipping raw coins claiming they are particular varieties when he has already misattributed several, and refuses to be open or answer basic questions asked, which as a minimum gives the appearance of shady dealings. You on the other hand seem to be taking a pretty straightforward approach, and don't have a problem being open or answering questions. Edited November 7, 2023 by EagleRJO powermad5000 and Hoghead515 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coinbuf Posted November 6, 2023 Share Posted November 6, 2023 On 11/6/2023 at 2:05 PM, Greenstang said: Raining out so I had some time to search some of my old files fron years ago .Maybe this will help in recognising a genuine 3 1/2 legger. Here is the genuine Reverse. Note the "Pee LIne" runnng under the Buffalo. Also the rear leg is is nearly polished off. Also on the Obverse, note the roughness on the back of the neck. All of these show on a genuine coin. None of these markers show on the OP's coin You analysis is perfect, but the op's coin is a 1936 not a 1937. EagleRJO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dprince1138 Posted November 6, 2023 Share Posted November 6, 2023 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cobymordet Posted November 6, 2023 Share Posted November 6, 2023 (edited) Where the buffalo roam. . . er. . . mustangs rest idly by. Oh, I get it, a Green Mustang. Cheeky monkey you! Edited November 6, 2023 by cobymordet dprince1138 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dprince1138 Posted November 6, 2023 Share Posted November 6, 2023 On 11/6/2023 at 3:59 PM, cobymordet said: Where the buffalo roam. . . er. . . mustangs rest idly by. Oh, I get it, a Green Mustang. Cheeky monkey you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleRJO Posted November 6, 2023 Share Posted November 6, 2023 On 11/6/2023 at 4:55 PM, dprince1138 said: Well, at least you have good taste in cars, except maybe for the color given the reference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleRJO Posted November 6, 2023 Share Posted November 6, 2023 On 11/6/2023 at 6:15 AM, CREDTO51 said: Here’s a better picture, thanks I don't know about you guys, but for this pretty worn and damaged coin I am seeing significantly more detail where there should be less from the die polishing as in better condition attributed examples of a 1936-D 5C 3-1/2 Leg variety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CREDTO51 Posted November 7, 2023 Author Share Posted November 7, 2023 @powermad5000 My iPad is maxed on resolution, sorry. Two are with kitchen led overhead lights, the other is Desktop halogen. Thanks for your input, Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Neophyte Numismatist Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 I am not 100%, but it looks like it has too much meat on that leg to be a 3.5 legger. I would love to be wrong here, because that would be cool for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powermad5000 Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 Thank you for the additional pics @CREDTO51! Those are much better for those in this thread viewing the area in question. I am in alignment with @The Neophyte Numismatist. I see some parallel lines in the leg area that could indicate possibly someone removed some metal to simulate a 3 legger. HOWEVER, I am not going to say that is the definitive answer. Where it is at currently, I would definitely take this coin to a knowledgeable expert for an in hand assessment and evaluation and even a second in hand opinion as well from a second expert. I would want to know for sure before I spend roughly $120 to have it graded, that I know I am sending a legit 3 legger, because if it is not, you would be spending that to slab a coin worth about $3. CREDTO51 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CREDTO51 Posted November 7, 2023 Author Share Posted November 7, 2023 @powermad5000 I saw those too through my loupe. But they are located in the same location as better quality coins. I will find a reputable coin dealer and get a proper opinion. Thanks Tom powermad5000 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
