Coin grading PSA 1 1

[Hoghead515]

On 11/2/2023 at 12:53 AM, Sandon said:

   I'm not sure how this thread has been "hijacked" when all the replies are to content that you posted. 

Ive seen him use that post twice when he was being called out for being shady and crooking people. 

I normally sit back and dont say a word when people argue on here and things like that. But when someone admits to crooking people it gets under my skin. Thanks for letting us know who you really are @dprince1138 so we know to avoid buying anything from you. From the few post you made I think you need to learn a little more about coins before you try to sell them. You said several things in different threads on here that dont make a bit of sense. You should start thinking about ethics also. Some of these people you are ripping off are unsuspecting people who actually work hard for their money and take your word on what your selling them. Some may be older and not know any better. Remember what Im saying here when karma catches up with you or you get older and start actually feeling guilty one of these days for lying to people about what your selling them. Serious collectors can see right through what your selling and laugh it off. Your victims are people who dont know any better such as kids and older people and people like that. To me thats on the same level as those phone scammers from India. Same difference. Lying to people who dont know any better to take their money and make a quick buck.

Edited November 2, 2023 by Hoghead515

[powermad5000]

I will just plain remove C from your list as nobody just "finds" a Rock Crusher trans sitting around in their garage. I am also a car guy.

In your B example, laws here do not allow firearms to be sold out of a garage as I imagine is also the same in many other states. So, I'll throw out your B example and stick to your A coin example.

I would tell the owner what they have, and I would not buy the coin unless the owner agreed to let me go home, get my loupe, return, and give a fair assessment of the condition including if it was cleaned or not. Then I would not be able to buy the coin without offering fair market value for it. On eBay, I have helped sellers in both ways, some listing their coins improperly and some who I had no interest in buying their coin, but I could tell they had no clue what they had or of its value. There was one auction for a coin I wanted, and messaged the seller that people were trying to take advantage of his $0.01 starting bid and were going to lowball him. I recommended he end the auction and relist with a higher starting bid as the coin should have sold for well over $100. He did and I bid high because I wanted it. In effect, he was getting taken advantage of because he was unaware it was a VAM Morgan worth more than a typical date/mintmark and the bidders knew it, but I couldn't in good conscience let the guy get ripped off. And then there are the scammers on there when I call them out, they tell me "It's none of your business." "Don't look at my coins then."

And the coins I sell on there are mostly my "mistakes". I do make them. And I eat the cost of grading for whatever reason it was I sent it in for and it didn't grade how I thought. Because it is my reputation on the line. And I have repeat customers and followers because they know they can buy from me without getting ripped off. I am guessing you are not concerned with your reputation, but believe me, it will follow you. I was once that kid who didn't know any better who bought coins. Just because it is not face to face doesn't make it "ok" to take advantage.

All I know is I sleep very well at night.

[VKurtB]

This OP is an unethical pig. 

[dprince1138]

Returning this hijacked thread to the original purpose of presenting evidence to those with little experience to learn about gradings

[EagleRJO]

What was the original purpose of this thread before you stuck your foot in your mouth and then started dodging questions?  To let newbies know raw coins on Etsy are overgraded?  That is all over this forum and you reiterated that in the first paragraph of your first post, without any examples of sample listings with your grade, grading methods and explanations to educate the newbies. 

Or is the intent to continue just posting raw coins with a variety guess you frequently have been misattributing to get feedback as you are struggling with that, which seems to be the real intent.  If you needed help or wanted to confirm a variety you thought was found you simply should have asked instead of derailing your own topic into a massive thread wreckage by dodging questions or comments about things you posted yourself.

Edited November 3, 2023 by EagleRJO

[powermad5000]

Let it go @EagleRJO. The OP just continues to copy and paste the same comment sans any answers. A leopard will still have it's same spots. Those who do these things will continue to do them no matter what anyone says.

[EagleRJO]

@powermad5000 I am expecting the same canned dodge reply, and I am done with my venting. 

[J P M]

I never got any kind of a answer to my question. So after seeing the generic response I came to the conclusion  we were just dealing with another (Slick) .  

[dprince1138]

Thank you for the postcount opporunities.
Coin grading, what everyone should know;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheldon_coin_grading_scale

 

[VKurtB]

On 11/3/2023 at 6:36 AM, dprince1138 said:

Thank you for the postcount opporunities.
Coin grading, what everyone should know;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheldon_coin_grading_scale

 

Pretty much everybody here already knows all that.

[dprince1138]

Here is an example of a coin (1834 capped bust half) that I have graded as VF (very fine).  While there are sub-categories of base level grades, such as VF-20 and VF-25, it becomes more important when the base level grades used are AU (almost uncirculated) or UNC (uncirculated).

Obverse-
Face detail, such as eyes, nostril and lips are clearly visible, with good detail.
The word "liberty" in the headband is complete and crisp.
Much of the creases in the cap and curls in the hair are visible.
Wearing is even and on the highest areas.

Reverse-
All letters easily readable.
Shield lines are crisp.
Most feather demarcation is visible.

Also, for comparison, is an ANACS VF rated coin.

Edited November 3, 2023 by dprince1138

[J P M]

So are you asking for advice on this ungraded coin or telling us your opinion ?

[Coinbuf]

On 11/3/2023 at 9:19 AM, J P M said:

So are you asking for advice on this ungraded coin or telling us your opinion ?

He is proudly showing off his harshly cleaned junk coin collection. 

[dprince1138]

Here is another coin that I have graded as VF (1877 seated liberty half dollar).   While certain structures are common between coins, they are not always minted in the same detail, depth or relief.

Obverse-
Face detail, such as eyes and mouth are clearly visible, with good detail.
While the word "liberty" on the shield is very weak, it is visible. 
All of the lines on the shield are visible.
Some detail in the hair and cap are visible.
Wearing is even and on the highest areas.
Overall wear is minimal.

Reverse-
All letters are easily readable, with some wear in motto.
All of the lines on the shield are visible.
Most feather demarcation is visible.
Overall wear is minimal.

Also, for comparison, is an NGC VF rated coin.

[powermad5000]

I'm out! Buh bye! 

[GoldFinger1969]

On 11/2/2023 at 3:21 AM, powermad5000 said:

There was one auction for a coin I wanted, and messaged the seller that people were trying to take advantage of his $0.01 starting bid and were going to lowball him. I recommended he end the auction and relist with a higher starting bid as the coin should have sold for well over $100. He did and I bid high because I wanted it. In effect, he was getting taken advantage of because he was unaware it was a VAM Morgan worth more than a typical date/mintmark and the bidders knew it, but I couldn't in good conscience let the guy get ripped off.

Why wouldn't the price just have risen from $0.01 or even $1.00 ?  I see 4 and 5-figure coins all the time on HA and GC start out at $1 and approach FMV down the line.  The only thing is you see a dozen or more "stink bids" before you even approach FMV.

[powermad5000]

It doesn't always happen that way on eBay. I remember my first auction for a slabbed Morgan 1881 S NGC graded AU58. I sold that because I upgraded big time. I started the auction at $0.01. Well, it ended at $26.50. Pre pandemic but I had to let it go for basically half of FMV at the time. And once it ends you have to ship no matter what happened in the auction. Because of that single auction is why I no longer auction any of my coins on eBay. It's buy it now or no deal.

[GoldFinger1969]

On 11/4/2023 at 12:50 AM, powermad5000 said:

It doesn't always happen that way on eBay. I remember my first auction for a slabbed Morgan 1881 S NGC graded AU58. I sold that because I upgraded big time. I started the auction at $0.01. Well, it ended at $26.50. Pre pandemic but I had to let it go for basically half of FMV at the time. And once it ends you have to ship no matter what happened in the auction. Because of that single auction is why I no longer auction any of my coins on eBay. It's buy it now or no deal.

I guess eBay isn't an efficient market with knowledgeable coin dealers moving the price reasonably close to FMV.  At least for some coins, mostly lower-priced.

I will say that I have never seen any high-priced Morgan's or Saints go for anything close to 50% below FMV.  I bought a nice Morgan that should have sold for about $400 and got it for like $350.  But there were like 3 or 4 of us still bidding at or above $300, let alone $200 (which would have been 50% of FMV). 

[powermad5000]

There is a difference on there when it comes to slabbed VS raw @GoldFinger1969. Also differences in high end coins VS low end coins. And the one variable that cannot be controlled is how many people are looking for a specific coin at the specific time of auction and also how many bidders are willing to pay FMV or are just looking for a "bargain". I have seen some auctions with the perfect storm of rabid bidders who would probably fist fight over a certain coin, and I have also seen some auctions end at a price that makes you smack your forehead and say to yourself "That coin only sold for that much???!!!!"

Sometimes I will watch an auction with no intent to buy just to see where it ends at. If you try that sometime on eBay you will see what I mean.

Edited November 4, 2023 by powermad5000

[dprince1138]

 

On 11/3/2023 at 11:42 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

Why wouldn't the price just have risen from $0.01 or even $1.00 ?  I see 4 and 5-figure coins all the time on HA and GC start out at $1 and approach FMV down the line.  The only thing is you see a dozen or more "stink bids" before you even approach FMV.

I see this situation quite often, where a seller will start at .01 or $1.   Generally, in a situation such as this, an item will be watched and the bids will happen on the last day.   A personal experience was when I acquired a low mint 1880 seated liberty dime.  I began the starting bid low.   There were 2 dozen watchers and the coin sold for several 100 dollars.

[dprince1138]

Here is another coin (1849 seated liberty dime) that I have graded as VG (very good).   Once the grade is below F (fine), the quality of the coin degrades rapidly. 

Obverse - 
Some detail of liberty is visible.
Primary structures are easily visible.
Most of the letters in the word "liberty" are visible. 
Wearing is even, but somewhat heavy.

Reverse-
All Letters and wreath are clearly visible.
Some deatil of wreath may be visible.
Wearing is even, but somewhat heavy.

Also, for comparison, is an PCGS VG rated coin.

 

[GoldFinger1969]

On 11/4/2023 at 1:41 AM, powermad5000 said:

There is a difference on there when it comes to slabbed VS raw @GoldFinger1969. Also differences in high end coins VS low end coins. And the one variable that cannot be controlled is how many people are looking for a specific coin at the specific time of auction and also how many bidders are willing to pay FMV or are just looking for a "bargain". I have seen some auctions with the perfect storm of rabid bidders who would probably fist fight over a certain coin, and I have also seen some auctions end at a price that makes you smack your forehead and say to yourself "That coin only sold for that much???!!!!"  ometimes I will watch an auction with no intent to buy just to see where it ends at. If you try that sometime on eBay you will see what I mean.

The problem with raw auctions is that unless BOTH the (ultimate) buyer and seller are knowledgeable about grading, you have a very wide moat of uncertainty as to the coin's condition.  This is increased by the fact that the buyer/bidders do not have the actual coin in hand but are going by photographs which may or may not be distorting (deliberately or accidentally) the appearance/condition of the coin.

[powermad5000]

On 11/4/2023 at 10:56 AM, GoldFinger1969 said:

The problem with raw auctions is that unless BOTH the (ultimate) buyer and seller are knowledgeable about grading, you have a very wide moat of uncertainty as to the coin's condition.  This is increased by the fact that the buyer/bidders do not have the actual coin in hand but are going by photographs which may or may not be distorting (deliberately or accidentally) the appearance/condition of the coin.

Much agreed.

[dprince1138]

Here is another coin (1858/8 O Seated Liberty half dollar) that I have graded as XF (extra\extremely fine).   Also, on occasion, there will be uneven wear on a particular section of a coin.   Generally, each grade will have a consideration for the eveness of wear.  Even though most areas of a coin may be of a particular grade, the uneveness would most likely reduce the grade of the coin.  Also, there is the unfortunate occasion when an improper cleaning is attempted and scratches are visible.  Many collectors will not clean coins, except for non-abrasive methods, such as soap and hot water to remove dirt and grease.

Obverse-
Face detail, such as eyes, mouth and nose are clearly visible, with good detail.
The word "liberty" on the shield is crisp and complete. 
All of the lines on the shield are crisp.
More detail in the hair and cap are visible.
Drape folds are complete and feet\sandal details are visible.
Wearing is even and only on the highest areas.
Denticles are visible and distinct.
Overall wear is very minimal.

Reverse-
All letters are easily readable.
All of the lines on the shield are crisp
Almost all feather demarcation is visible.
Denticles are visible and distinct.
Leaf veins and arrow spines are visible.
Overall wear is very minimal.

(for reference of the coins that I have self graded, I have posted my ebay link on the forum "Coin Marketplace", thread "Board Member = Ebay ID")

The tool for examination that I use is a jewelers loop (30x, 60x), purchased from Amazon.

Also, for comparison, is an NGC XF rated coin.

Edited November 5, 2023 by dprince1138

[J P M]

On 11/5/2023 at 12:02 PM, dprince1138 said:

Here is another coin (1858/8 O Seated Liberty half dollar) that I have graded as XF (extra\extremely fine).   Also, on occasion, there will be uneven wear on a particular section of a coin.   Generally, each grade will have a consideration for the eveness of wear.  Even though most areas of a coin may be of a particular grade, the uneveness would most likely reduce the grade of the coin.  Also, there is the unfortunate occasion when an improper cleaning is attempted and scratches are visible.  Many collectors will not clean coins, except for non-abrasive methods, such as soap and hot water to remove dirt and grease.

Obverse-
Face detail, such as eyes, mouth and nose are clearly visible, with good detail.
The word "liberty" on the shield is crisp and complete. 
All of the lines on the shield are crisp.
More detail in the hair and cap are visible.
Drape folds are complete and feet\sandal details are visible.
Wearing is even and only on the highest areas.
Denticles are visible and distinct.
Overall wear is very minimal.

Reverse-
All letters are easily readable.
All of the lines on the shield are crisp
Almost all feather demarcation is visible.
Denticles are visible and distinct.
Leaf veins and arrow spines are visible.
Overall wear is very minimal.

(for reference of the coins that I have self graded, I have posted my ebay link on the forum "Coin Marketplace", thread "Board Member = Ebay ID")

The tool for examination that I use is a jewelers loop (30x, 60x), purchased from Amazon.

Also, for comparison, is an NGC XF rated coin.

I am still unsure what you are trying to sell the members with all this information. Your comparisons have a lot of words but there are always two words missing on most of the coins you have posted. You may want to consider adding (Cleaned ) and (Details ) to your list. Just a suggestion .  

[VKurtB]

On 11/5/2023 at 7:41 PM, J P M said:

I am still unsure what you are trying to sell the members with all this information. Your comparisons have a lot of words but there are always two words missing on most of the coins you have posted. You may want to consider adding (Cleaned ) and (Details ) to your list. Just a suggestion .  

That's exactly what I was thinking. All these raw coin pictures show damaged coins that will not get a numerical grade at all. This OP is trying to imply a false equivalence.

[J P M]

I think the OP is looking to resell these coins and using this forum for justification to ask for the higher prices. There is saying us old guys use a lot.

( You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear )

Edited November 6, 2023 by J P M

[GoldFinger1969]

On 11/5/2023 at 9:02 PM, J P M said:

I think the OP is looking to resell these coins and using this forum for justification to ask for the higher prices. There is saying us old guys use a lot.

( You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear )

Well, nobody here is going to buy them in all likelihood if they are Details coins, so seems like alot of work for him to do if that's his goal.

dPrince, what's your endgame ?  You selling these ?  Gonna submit them for grading ?  What ?

[cobymordet]

I may be going out on a limb, but I think DPrince1138 is expressing to us his ability to grade a coin. 

He shows his coin, discusses his process of examination, and then shows us a graded coin that matches. 

Me personally, I can't grade a coin particularly well. 

LOL isn't that why I have Mikey? He'll grade anything!

 

[powermad5000]

On 11/6/2023 at 12:33 AM, cobymordet said:

I may be going out on a limb, but I think DPrince1138 is expressing to us his ability to grade a coin.

The problem is the OP is incorrectly self grading and attributing the coins in these posts. It is misleading to newcomers. He is also omitting obvious damage on some of the coins in his assessments.

Also, his recommendation to clean coins with soap and water is not something that should be done. Don't clean your coins! While NGC may state somewhere in their webpages that a coin will not receive a details grade for cleaning by using a mild soap and water, this leads people to rub the surface with their fingers which causes damage. So I will say it again, do not clean your coins!

And it is not a jewelers loop. It is a loupe.