Why so many Denver coins submitted in 2019? 2 2

[Lem E]

I am always digging around in the NGC census for one reason or another and something happened to catch my attention. I noticed that there was a pretty big gap between Denver and Philly uncirculated/business strike coin submissions. Here are the numbers of total submissions.

Lincoln cent.             P 509 / D 1380                  
Jefferson nickel        P 269 / D 841           
Roosevelt dime        P 227 / D 1028   
Kennedy half            P 483 / D 8290

The quarter numbers were all higher for the Denver coins but the gap was not as significant so I didn't include them. 
The only outlier was the Sac $ with more Philly submissions than Denver. P 3289 / D 1559

I understand that the Kennedy numbers were affected by the release of the Rocketship set that included a Denver Kennedy and a proof Sac $. I also know there was the Explore and Discover set that included Denver and San Fran coins.
My question is why such a large margin between the Denver and Philly coins? Was there something special to look for with the Denver coins? Just curious.

[RWB]

Don't know...Were Denver coins of better quality than Philadelphia's?

Will be an interesting answer - if there is one.

[Lem E]

On 10/7/2023 at 11:48 AM, RWB said:

Don't know...Were Denver coins of better quality than Philadelphia's?

Will be an interesting answer - if there is one.

I wondered about that myself. Or if there was a special label slot in registry sets? Doubled die from Denver?

[RWB]

By the time most circulation strike coins reach collectors' mitts, they are pretty scruffy....

[Coinbuf]

I don't know if there is any exact answer, I can say that from experience looking thru the coins that I collect via my business that the Denver coins seem to be of better quality.   I noticed on many of the Philly quarters in recent years those coins would exhibit a strange ring around the coin in the fields, this looks to have been caused from poor production or quality control, I seldom saw this on any of the Denver coins.    Additionally, I noticed on the crossing the Delaware quarters that a large percentage of Denver quarters have an almost proof like quality to the fields, conversely most of the Philly coinage I encountered appeared dull and lackluster.

I attribute some of this to living on the west coast as Philly coins have to travel longer thru commerce channels before I see them, still even the best uncirculated coins that I have seen the Philly coins just don't seem on par with those from Denver.   Also, it seems to me that most of the error coinage that I have seen or read about comes from the Philly mint, maybe there are more shenanigans that happen at the Philly mint, or maybe the QC is lower there, I don't know.

Edited October 7, 2023 by Coinbuf

[J P M]

Roll hunting, I have always found Denver coins have a much stronger looking strike and proof like fields for many of the coins. So I can see why the count would be higher for people trying to get the PL designation on a coin.

[Lem E]

After a bit more digging I am going to say that a good majority of the Denver coins came from the 2 special sets. I see that the numbers for the coins with the Explore and Discover label are quite high compared to just a regular 2019 D coin. Same for Kennedys from the Rocketship set. I didn’t see anything all that special about either set aside from a product limit of 50,000 sets each. Must have been a label thing.

Edit - Both TPGs encapsulated the one cent blank planchet from the Explore and Discover set. That may have been the reason.

Edited October 7, 2023 by Lem E
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[Modwriter]

West Coast here too. Do the mints make their dies in-house? Do they make their planchets in house? I ordered a complete set of the Philadelphia state quarters for a folder that I'm working on from Littleton and  they all were in MS condition. I had most of the Denver coins. I have noticed the PL appearance on circulated coins since the 2021 Washington Crossing the Delaware quarter.

[RWB]

On 10/7/2023 at 7:17 PM, Lem E said:

Edit - Both TPGs encapsulated the one cent blank planchet from the Explore and Discover set.

Hmmm...now if the planchet had a mintmark...?

[powermad5000]

Interesting. The only proof like I ever got in change was a 2022 D Roosy MS 67 FT PL. Seems of the moderns I've submitted, most of the Lincoln cents I've submitted were P and most of the majority of the other denominations were D. 

Something I have never actually paid attention to. I might have to look back into my collection to see if there is any correlation between D and P and quality.

[Sandon]

On 10/7/2023 at 8:18 PM, Modwriter said:

Do the mints make their dies in-house? Do they make their planchets in house?

   Although historically the Philadelphia mint made all U.S. dies and shipped those for use at branch mints to those facilities, the Denver mint has made some dies since 1996. (See 2023 "Redbook" at p. 22.) I'm not sure about San Francisco or West Point. Presumably, the models are still kept and master dies still made at the Philadelphia mint.

   At one time the mints operated mills that transformed blocks of metal into rolls of "strip" and then punched out and finished the planchets for at least some denominations, but I understand that planchets are now procured from private companies. I was fortunate enough to have visited the Philadelphia mint in 1976 and observed the mill in operation. By my next visit in or about 1983 the mill had been shut down, but I recall that the mint was still upsetting the rims of and annealing at least some of the planchets.

   @RWB, I'm sure, has more information on this topic.

   Regarding the disparity in the third-party grading of "P" and "D" mint coins, I have observed that the "D" coins in uncirculated coin ("mint") sets of recent years tend to be of higher quality than the "P" mint coins. 

   

[RWB]

Denver and Philadelphia Mint each have their own die shop, and make the dies they use. Philadelphia also makes all dies for West Point and San Francisco.

Rolling mills were used to gradually flatten and extend cast metal ingots into strips. Blanks were cut from these, run through riddlers, then upsetting mills before going to the presses. As Sandon noted, all planchets are bought from contractors. This has helped control labor cost, capital equipment expenses, and avoided costly plant expansion. Large "ballistic bags" (huge Tyvek plastic bags) of coins are sold to the Federal Reserve System and shipped to currency companies (Brinks, and others) where the bags are broken down into rolls and boxed for distribution to businesses and banks. These facilities also handle re-circulation of coins.

Collector coins are handled internally to the Mint Bureau and orders are fulfilled by contractors.

I agree with others that the Denver circulating coins seem "nicer" than Philadelphia products.... But, I don't know of anyone examining the pieces in detail.