1942-P Jefferson Nickel is this a rotated die? 0

[NeverEnoughCoins09]

I was meaning to post this when I had better pictures. I figured I could atleast ask if this is a rotated die and if so by how much? I'm new to rotated dies and the varying degrees. I'm sure this is pretty minor if so.

I will post better pictures when I can but if you look at Jeffersons collar the line goes out to the 4 what is this considered?

[Fenntucky Mike]

Here you go, you tell me.

[NeverEnoughCoins09]

On 9/5/2023 at 7:16 AM, Fenntucky Mike said:

Here you go, you tell me.

15 degrees? Thanks I'm saving that. 

Edited September 5, 2023 by NeverEnoughCoins09
added

[Fenntucky Mike]

On 9/5/2023 at 8:18 AM, NeverEnoughCoins09 said:

15 degrees?

Yep, that's what it looks like to me. Right around there at any rate.

Edited September 5, 2023 by Fenntucky Mike
Spelling

[NeverEnoughCoins09]

On 9/5/2023 at 7:19 AM, Fenntucky Mike said:

Yep, that's what it looks like to me. Right around there at any rate.

So yes very minor  oh well still pretty cool.

[powermad5000]

Using my phone, I kept coming up with 14 degrees solid, but it is very borderline between 14 and 15 degrees. That is of course using my phone to take a pic of your pic so there is room for variance included in my statement here. It only takes 15 degrees for NGC to give it the mint error label so it really isn't that minor. 3 degrees would be minor. And the nickel itself is in good condition. Nice acquisition! As for the "line" you are speaking of going out to the 4, could be just a small die chip.

[NeverEnoughCoins09]

On 9/5/2023 at 9:48 AM, powermad5000 said:

It only takes 15 degrees for NGC to give it the mint error label so it really isn't that minor. 3 degrees would be minor. And the nickel itself is in good condition. Nice acquisition! As for the "line" you are speaking of going out to the 4, could be just a small die chip.

That's cool, worth keeping a note for myself. Probably not worth sending in probably though..it's in an ANACS. Read die rotation is common on Buffalo's and Mercury's not so sure on Jeffersons or war nickels to be specific. Thank you hopefully it looks nice when I get it!

It's just graded MS66 no FS designation sadly. I like how it looks though

Edited September 5, 2023 by NeverEnoughCoins09
added

[powermad5000]

That really depends on if it has any full steps or not. I cannot tell from the photos. I would say if it has at least 5FS along with the rotated dies, it would be a coin I would send in, although there are many others on here that will say it is not worth it. I have probably sent in many coins that others would not have, but I like my coins to have proper designation as well as some extra protection.

[J P M]

On 9/5/2023 at 11:01 AM, powermad5000 said:

That really depends on if it has any full steps or not. I cannot tell from the photos. I would say if it has at least 5FS along with the rotated dies, it would be a coin I would send in, although there are many others on here that will say it is not worth it. I have probably sent in many coins that others would not have, but I like my coins to have proper designation as well as some extra protection.

 

On 9/5/2023 at 10:55 AM, NeverEnoughCoins09 said:

It's just graded MS66 no FS designation sadly.

It is in a holder so it is safe. Unless you are making a registry set  I would leave it alone. It may have a bad step we can not see. Now rotation is a different story. Where is true north on the obverse of a Jefferson Nickel. ( Was he reading a book ,looking straight ahead or looking at a spider on the ceiling )   Just having some fun with that last line.

[Greenstang]

There is a ding on the steps about 1/3 in from the left that would negate a FS designation

[NeverEnoughCoins09]

On 9/5/2023 at 11:42 AM, Greenstang said:

There is a ding on the steps about 1/3 in from the left that would negate a FS designation

I figured but I appreciate it!

[EagleRJO]

On 9/5/2023 at 8:16 AM, Fenntucky Mike said:

Here you go, you tell me.

Thanks for sharing Mike as that's a nicer gauge than the one I use.

You can use it digitally or print some out on a transparent printer sheet (like 4 per sheet) to sandwich the coin and more accurately measure die rotation like a Rota Flip.

Edited September 6, 2023 by EagleRJO

[Halbrook Family]

I'm new at this. I never looked for errors before. This would be called a rotation error? Is there many? I would not think you would want that on a BU coin. Would it turn a face value coin into something good? 

[powermad5000]

It would be called "Rotated Dies". Actually, rotated dies are more common of an error on the error spectrum and have occurred in just about all the different series of coins ever made. In another thread on here concerning a Washington quarter, dies rotated 180 degrees, are a different story and are called "Medallic Alignment" (as in Olympic medals they hang on the necks of the winners they want the image to remain upright should the medal flip over side to side. Medals are always struck in this fashion.). An error collector will pay premiums for an error on a BU coin. In fact, error collectors would rather the error coin be a BU than something circulated.

[Sandon]

   Die rotations of this degree are fairly common.

   I can't be sure from your photos what the "line that goes out to the 4" is, but it may be either (1) a "strikethrough" of a sliver of stray metal that was lying on the planchet or die when the coin was struck or (2) a lamination in the metal of the planchet itself.  Wartime five cent pieces are composed of an unusual alloy of copper, silver and manganese. The mint had difficulty mixing this alloy, resulting in frequent planchet laminations (slivers of metal that partly or completely detach from the coins' surfaces.) These aren't considered to be mint errors unless they are particularly severe and usually aren't too valuable even when they are.

[NeverEnoughCoins09]

On 9/9/2023 at 6:49 PM, Sandon said:

   Die rotations of this degree are fairly common.

   I can't be sure from your photos what the "line that goes out to the 4" is, but it may be either (1) a "strikethrough" of a sliver of stray metal that was lying on the planchet or die when the coin was struck or (2) a lamination in the metal of the planchet itself.  Wartime five cent pieces are composed of an unusual alloy of copper, silver and manganese. The mint had difficulty mixing this alloy, resulting in frequent planchet laminations (slivers of metal that partly or completely detach from the coins' surfaces.) These aren't considered to be mint errors unless they are particularly severe and usually aren't too valuable even when they are.

Thank you Sandon, yes unfortunately it's not 45 degrees or more. I read that some coin series are more common than others and not so much in others.

I know it's only a minor 14-15 degrees but is a die rotation common in war nickels? I read that Jeffersons not so much compared to other coins.

That information could have been false or unsubstantiated. Just thought it was an interesting find along with the possible strike through or the  lamination as you stated and a cool addition since I didn't notice at first and it wasn't listed as such. 

Even if it doesn't add much value it's nice to know there was more to the coin than originally thought and I didn't have anything like that in my collection yet

[Sandon]

On 9/10/2023 at 10:13 AM, NeverEnoughCoins09 said:

is a die rotation common in war nickels?

   I've never seen any study of this issue, and I really don't care. I'm concerned that newer collectors dwell on what I see as trivial matters like this and look for any minor anomaly as something "special".  To me what is special about wartime "nickels" is that they were made in an unusual composition to conserve nickel and copper so that they could be used for wartime production needs. They are literally "history in your hands". 

    The wartime production exigencies led to both high mintages and many irregularities in the coinage, some of which such as the 1942 over 1 dime and 1943 over 2 "nickel" overdate varieties are certainly interesting, but a relatively minor die rotation isn't very interesting, at least to me.

[NeverEnoughCoins09]

On 9/10/2023 at 9:45 AM, Sandon said:

To me what is special about wartime "nickels" is that they were made in an unusual composition to conserve nickel and copper so that they could be used for wartime production needs. They are literally "history in your hands". 

    The wartime production exigencies led to both high mintages and many irregularities in the coinage, some of which such as the 1942 over 1 dime and 1943 over 2 "nickel" overdate varieties are certainly interesting, but a relatively minor die rotation isn't very interesting, at least to me.

They are an important piece of recent history. Just as all coins have a story to tell from whichever time period they are from. Some more significant than others.

I have been fond of them since I was given my first coins as a child. Along with Kennedy half dollars. Not for the same reasons obviously but a lot was going on during Kennedys presidency as you know and possibly even lived through.

I can understand why a minor die rotation isn't very interesting to you. I am looking at getting a 1943/2 variety as you mentioned. 

As always thanks for your posts Sandon.