1942-S PL Jefferson Nickel Possible DDR or RPM? Anything else welcome. 0

[NeverEnoughCoins09]

Edited August 28, 2023 by NeverEnoughCoins09
added

[NeverEnoughCoins09]

I am pretty new identifying errors or varieties. What stood out to me was the mint mark, the S diagonal to the mint mark, AMERICA, and possibly other areas. Compared to other pictures it doesn't look right. Thank you for your time

[Hoghead515]

I cant tell by the pics but it should mention it on the slab if it is. Unless its something minor NGC dosent recognize. Unless the submitter didnt use variety plus services. You can look under NGCs variety plus and see if there are any for that year and compare yours to them. Or look at variety vista online and search that years varieties. 

[Hoghead515]

I looked at variety vista an it dosent show any ddr listings. It only shows 3 ddo listings for that year and mint mark. 

[NeverEnoughCoins09]

On 8/27/2023 at 7:47 PM, Hoghead515 said:

I cant tell by the pics but it should mention it on the slab if it is. Unless its something minor NGC dosent recognize. Unless the submitter didnt use variety plus services. You can look under NGCs variety plus and see if there are any for that year and compare yours to them. Or look at variety vista online and search that years varieties. 

I tried looking at variety vista and searching in general. I couldn't find anything. It's another reason I was asking. I was hoping someone had some information possibly.

I will post better pictures when it arrives. That's the best I could get for now.

A 1942-S that doesn't look the same.

[Hoghead515]

I looked under NGC variety plus. They do have 4 rpm S/S varieties listed. I still cant tell but im not very good at these. It could be an rpm. Someone with more experience with these will eventually chime in and help. If you go to NGCs home page. Go to resources and a small box with other categories will pop up. Go to NGC variety plus and then go through the menus. US coin/nickels/jefferson nickels. And keep going through until you find 1942 S. It will show every variety NGC recognizes. Its got pictures you can compare it to. Some also has die markers such as cracks that can help match a coin up. If it is one and not on the slab , you could probably send it in to NGC for a fee and have it put on there. It probably would cost more than it be worth though. If it turns out to be one then the submitter probably didnt pay the $15 variety plus service to have it checked.  But its really hard for me to tell by the pictures. Its hard to get a good picture of a coin. If you are an NGC member then you can go through their resources and see if it is or not. Just have to navigate their website a little and find variety plus. Its usually my go to place if Im trying to confirm an rpm or dd coin. Very helpful. If your not an NGC member you can do an internet search and with a little looking probably find the known rpm listings with pictures also. But if it is anything its an rpm because there is no DDRs listed for that year. It may not be an RPM either. May be a little mechanical doubling you are seeing. It hard for me to tell by the picture. Im not the greatest at seeing those things.

[Sandon]

   If the doubling to which you are referring is on the mintmark, it isn't a doubled die because until about 1991 mint marks were separately punched into working dies after the dies had been impressed by the hubs. It could be a repunched mintmark (RPM). There could also be die doubling on other elements or strike (a.k.a. machine or mechanical) doubling on such elements and the mint mark as well. Unfortunately, the photos aren't clear enough for me to see whether this coin has any doubling or other anomaly.

[Coinbuf]

There are 16 RPM's listed on VV, however I do not see a match for your coin.   Problem with proof and PL coins is that often you get some reflection artifacts when looking at photos.   It sounds like this is in transit to you now so once it arrives you can update with the in hand look.

[NeverEnoughCoins09]

@Coinbuf @Sandon Ok sounds good! I will do the best I can with the picture when it arrives.

[powermad5000]

I agree with the others on this matter. What you have is a picture of a picture of a coin on a screen if that makes sense. And each camera taking its picture has different settings and adjustments, so we on our screens are basically looking at a screen image (our different screens have different adjustments and nuances as well) of a picture taken of a picture of a coin on another screen (see how many factors have entered this equation?) Your picture is cropped and would be just fine to answer a different question about the coin, but to see a critical detail to answer your question properly, you will need to get us the pic of the coin in hand (or on the table) which you have stated you will. We shall await the next chapter in this story!

I was just trying to explain what can make it so difficult for the forum members to answer some types of questions based solely on some photos.

[NeverEnoughCoins09]

On 8/28/2023 at 2:38 AM, powermad5000 said:

I agree with the others on this matter. What you have is a picture of a picture of a coin on a screen if that makes sense. And each camera taking its picture has different settings and adjustments, so we on our screens are basically looking at a screen image (our different screens have different adjustments and nuances as well) of a picture taken of a picture of a coin on another screen (see how many factors have entered this equation?) Your picture is cropped and would be just fine to answer a different question about the coin, but to see a critical detail to answer your question properly, you will need to get us the pic of the coin in hand (or on the table) which you have stated you will. We shall await the next chapter in this story!

I was just trying to explain what can make it so difficult for the forum members to answer some types of questions based solely on some photos.

No I know what you mean completely! I should have thought about that myself and I shouldn't have expected anything more.

I think I just jumped the gun because I could see something. 

I have a question though. I might be misunderstanding what a single-squeeze peripheral design doubling is.

What is this considered to be when it occurs? Example of single-squeeze peripheral design doubling.

 

[J P M]

I have a few coins in slabs with minor doubling or RPM's . It is not worth it for me to send them back for verification. I think the cost would out way the value . Now if you have the money to burn then that is your choice.

 

[powermad5000]

This is an excerpt from error-ref.com :

Single squeeze hubbing produces doubled dies under two different scenarios. The first involves a hub that is offset relative to the die when the hubbing begins. During the hubbing, the offset is corrected by the increasing pressure that is felt on the hubbing plate, which causes the hub to slide into the correct position. Such doubled dies will have a “smeared” or elongated distortion to the design elements affected. Early die state coins will have division lines, along with split serifs, in the lettering and digits. Such an example is seen below which occurred on a 2004-P reverse die Lincoln cent.

Peripheral doubling is rare when the single squeeze hubbing system is used. The photos below show such doubling in the form of split serifs and division lines on the reverse of a 2004P Lincoln cent. The working hub had reached a point where most if not all of the design had already been transferred to the working die before the shift took place.

You can read the entire article and see photo examples here : 

https://www.error-ref.com/doubled-dies/#:~:text=Single squeeze hubbing produces,the shift took place.

[NeverEnoughCoins09]

On 8/28/2023 at 5:54 PM, powermad5000 said:

This is an excerpt from error-ref.com :

Single squeeze hubbing produces doubled dies under two different scenarios. The first involves a hub that is offset relative to the die when the hubbing begins. During the hubbing, the offset is corrected by the increasing pressure that is felt on the hubbing plate, which causes the hub to slide into the correct position. Such doubled dies will have a “smeared” or elongated distortion to the design elements affected. Early die state coins will have division lines, along with split serifs, in the lettering and digits. Such an example is seen below which occurred on a 2004-P reverse die Lincoln cent.

Peripheral doubling is rare when the single squeeze hubbing system is used. The photos below show such doubling in the form of split serifs and division lines on the reverse of a 2004P Lincoln cent. The working hub had reached a point where most if not all of the design had already been transferred to the working die before the shift took place.

You can read the entire article and see photo examples here : 

https://www.error-ref.com/doubled-dies/#:~:text=Single squeeze hubbing produces,the shift took place.

If that were to be the case would that be considered a double die reverse? 

I keep looking at examples or videos of well known DDO or DDR and I see quite a few similarities.

The picture I posted is also in your link for "IN GOD WE TRUST" that's a good example of what I believe is on "AMERICA" on my reverse if not better.

Whatever it ends up being I'm excited just can't wait to have a definitive answer.

Just speculation til I have it in hand though..

 

 

 

[NeverEnoughCoins09]

Does anyone know what a 1942-S MS 65 PL Jefferson Nickel would be possibly valued at?

From what I could find from auctions maybe a little above $200 retail there are no prices listed when I search the cert.

No, I don't plan on selling it or making money just trying to decide how much I could lose sending it in just in case.

Thank you again for everyone's time! 

[RWB]

Dies for your coin were produced in the standard manner for the 1940s, so skip the single-squeeze and fresh-squeezed stuff.

First, get the coin into a holder that agrees with your assumptions, then talk about price. It will cost you at least $50 for an NGC or PCGS slab, then there's the coffee you'll drink anxiously awaiting its return.....

[Lem E]

On 8/28/2023 at 7:14 PM, NeverEnoughCoins09 said:

Does anyone know what a 1942-S MS 65 PL Jefferson Nickel would be possibly valued at?

I would say max would be around $30. Even with the PL designation, a grade of 65 is low end for a war nickel. 

[NeverEnoughCoins09]

On 8/31/2023 at 9:53 PM, Lem E said:

I would say max would be around $30. Even with the PL designation, a grade of 65 is low end for a war nickel. 

Yeah the only auction record I found was for a MS66 PL at GC I think it went around $400-$600. Saw another one go for $145. I'm not sure if they list often?

[Hoghead515]

On 9/1/2023 at 10:32 AM, NeverEnoughCoins09 said:

Yeah the only auction record I found was for a MS66 PL at GC I think it went around $400-$600. Saw another one go for $145. I'm not sure if they list often?

Some coins make a huge $ difference just jumping up 1 numerical grade. May be one of them. Ole @Lem E knows his stuff on the nickels. Hes got one of the finest sets in the world. 

Edited September 1, 2023 by Hoghead515

[Lem E]

On 9/1/2023 at 3:39 PM, Hoghead515 said:

Some coins make a huge $ difference just jumping up 1 numerical grade. May be one of the. Ole @Lem E knows his stuff on the nickels. Hes got one of the finest sets in the world. 

I would have to assume that the 66PL would have to be a full step coin to bring that kind of price. 

[NeverEnoughCoins09]

On 9/1/2023 at 3:55 PM, Lem E said:

I would have to assume that the 66PL would have to be a full step coin to bring that kind of price. 

I did look at your registry set a few days ago impressive to say the least. CONGRATS!! It made me decide to never try to do the same .

How long did that take? I'm sure it was fairly pricey as well.

I'm not saying it is..but if that nickel is a possible RPM or DDR how much would that increase the value? It is one of the reasons i bought it as well. Not going to get rid of it I just like it. Hopefully it arrives tomorrow...

I'm sure I overpaid but i haven't seen anything around $30 bucks for one hah I wish. I do understand most with non FS at MS65-MS67 are quite affordable.

[NeverEnoughCoins09]

On 9/1/2023 at 3:55 PM, Lem E said:

I would have to assume that the 66PL would have to be a full step coin to bring that kind of price. 

I would have to look but I'm pretty sure your right.

[NeverEnoughCoins09]

@Lem E you were right but this one wasn't. MS66* thanks for your input.

[Hoghead515]

On 9/1/2023 at 8:22 PM, NeverEnoughCoins09 said:

@Lem E you were right but this one wasn't. MS66* thanks for your input.

The 1 point jump in grade helped that coin bring lots more money. Some of the quarters I collect bring around $40 to $50 in MS66 and $400 to $500 in MS67. Crazy how 1 numerical grade higher could make that much differance in the price. Also the star on that one helped it. They put a star on coins that have exceptional eye appeal. That can make a coin bring quite a bit more also. Factors such as toning and eye appeal can make a coin bring quite a premium.

Edited September 2, 2023 by Hoghead515

[NeverEnoughCoins09]

On 9/1/2023 at 7:53 PM, Hoghead515 said:

The 1 point jump in grade helped that coin bring lots more money. Some of the quarters I collect bring around $40 to $50 in MS66 and $400 to $500 in MS67. Crazy how 1 numerical grade higher could make that much differance in the price. Also the star on that one helped it. They put a star on coins that have exceptional eye appeal. That can make a coin bring quite a bit more also. Factors such as toning and eye appeal can make a coin bring quite a premium.

I saw it too late. I believe it was one of the finer ones known. I could have read the census wrong though. Could be a factor. 

People must want them if they are paying that much. Two weeks ago or so I saw the same coin I got but it didn't look as nice to me went for $145

Edited September 2, 2023 by NeverEnoughCoins09

[Lem E]

On 9/1/2023 at 7:22 PM, NeverEnoughCoins09 said:

@Lem E you were right but this one wasn't. MS66* thanks for your input.

Very interesting. Thanks for showing the auctions. I looked the NGC coin up. Someone definitely paid up for the star/PL combo grade and it is a pop of one and the highest star/PL combo grade. I personally would not have paid that much for it but some people just have to have those low pop odd grade one offs. More power to them. I’m sure it is an attractive coin. To put things in perspective, a normal 42 S in a grade of 66 (no PL or star or FS) is roughly a $35 coin and a 65 is $15/20. It’s hard to give a value when you add a PL designation to a coin. There aren’t that many and prices are very random. The same goes for an RPM. It could sell for $150 to the right person or it could sell for $15. Maybe it has some nice toning or another attribute that makes someone want it and pay up. That is generally why you don’t see prices in guides. Your coin looks to have a pop of 13 with some PLs in higher grades as well. 

On 9/1/2023 at 6:44 PM, NeverEnoughCoins09 said:

 

I'm not saying it is..but if that nickel is a possible RPM or DDR how much would that increase the value? 

If it does turn out to be an RPM it would probably increase the value. How much, I don’t know. Most of the RPMs for the 42 S in the census are in higher grades than 65. Like I said. The prices are just random. Now a doubled die of some sort may be a different story as NGC shows none. I don’t know if Coneca or any of those other variety places show any. A discovery coin would be a pretty big deal but I wouldn’t hold my breath. Most likely it’s either going to turn out to be machine or strike doubling or something. You have a much better chance with the RPM if anything. There are plenty of those throughout the Jefferson series, especially the war nickels. I wish you the best of luck with all of it and I hope you will keep us informed on what you find out.

P.S. I appreciate the comments on my set. It has taken about 3 years to get this far and let’s just say that I have paid way too much for $3.75 face. We collectors are a rare breed and sometimes do questionable things to get what we want. I have enjoyed every minute of it though. 
 

Best of luck 

Lem

[The Neophyte Numismatist]

This has been a great thread to read.  Thanks!!!

@NeverEnoughCoins09 Love the curious, non-combative approach.  I love the fact that you dug in and did a little research, too.

[NeverEnoughCoins09]

On 9/1/2023 at 9:45 PM, The Neophyte Numismatist said:

This has been a great thread to read.  Thanks!!!

@NeverEnoughCoins09 Love the curious, non-combative approach.  I love the fact that you dug in and did a little research, too.

"All I know is that I know nothing." I came here for knowledge, opinions, and communication with others that enjoy the hobby.

You can't learn if you only want to hear what you want to hear. People are taking time out of what I assume are their busy lives to spend the coin of their life to try to help/educate one another and I appreciate it!

Constructive responses lead to more knowledge, comraderie and information that can lead to hopefully a better conclusion than where we started. 

I'm sorry for how some of the people on here respond to one another it's counterproductive and life is too short to get into arguements. People can be civil with a little effort.

I apologize in advance if my posts are mundane, obvious, ignorant or come off boring. I know time and time again seasoned people on here see the same things and it probably wears them. 

Thank you all for your time and patience 

[NeverEnoughCoins09]

On 9/1/2023 at 9:17 PM, Lem E said:

A discovery coin would be a pretty big deal but I wouldn’t hold my breath.

 I'm not for anything related to this coin.

Just out of curiosity how does the process of a discovery coin go for any coin? Is there a process? I have no clue how that works.

I'm pretty sure there have been debates and controversy over some new finds or finds that exist but people aren't sure of its origins or authenticity because there are only a couple.

[J P M]

On 9/2/2023 at 8:30 AM, NeverEnoughCoins09 said:

"All I know is that I know nothing." I came here for knowledge, opinions, and communication with others that enjoy the hobby.

You can't learn if you only want to hear what you want to hear. People are taking time out of what I assume are their busy lives to spend the coin of their life to try to help/educate one another and I appreciate it!

Constructive responses lead to more knowledge, comraderie and information that can lead to hopefully a better conclusion than where we started. 

I'm sorry for how some of the people on here respond to one another it's counterproductive and life is too short to get into arguements. People can be civil with a little effort.

I apologize in advance if my posts are mundane, obvious, ignorant or come off boring. I know time and time again seasoned people on here see the same things and it probably wears them. 

Thank you all for your time and patience 

You are doing great you ask good questions and that is how we all learn.