Charmy's 2023 CENTRAL STATES (CSNS) COIN SHOW REPORT w/Lots of Pics! 1 1

[The Penny Lady]

It’s been a couple days since I returned from the Central States show in Schaumburg and I’m still trying to dig out from all the coins I sold and purchased, as well as the dreaded paperwork that always follows after a large coin show. There was so much activity at the show this year, starting for me from the Greysheet reception on Tuesday evening all the way through the end of the show. I was busy at my table almost consistently throughout each day, then grabbing a quick drink with friends right after the show, then attending social events and dinners each evening, followed by more gatherings at the hotel bar after dinner events! Big kudos and applause to Larry, Mitch, and all of their staff and helpers who made this show the huge success it was!

I left OC early on Tuesday, so I could be in Chicago for the preshow social event sponsored by Greysheet, Cabrella Shipping Insurance and Whatnot.

Landing in Chicago!

This is a pic of the iconic beautiful changing colorful lights at the O’Hare airport

I arrived at the beautiful Renaissance Hotel where the show is held and where many dealers and collectors stayed.

After checking in and taking my bags to security, I joined my foreign coin dealer friends Karl and Joanne in their hotel room for a glass of wonderful aged Viognier wine before dinner.

After dinner, we headed over to the hotel bar for the dealer reception where many dealers had already gathered.

It was a fantastic event, and everyone had a blast – thank you Greysheet, Cabrella Shipping Insurance and Whatnot!

I made a contribution to CSNS and became one of the several “sponsors” of the show which meant that we could set up and get into the show an hour earlier than other dealers. I really enjoyed this extra “quiet” hour each day as it allowed me to get some work done at my booth which I happily took advantage of!

Wednesday was PNG day so I headed over to the show early to do some “shopping”! There was lots of signage throughout the halls and bourse floor.

This year they had set up a room on the second floor above the bourse floor for dealers who had lesser expensive inventory, and for Sunday only dealers. This is their room before set up.

There were quite a few PNG dealers set up and I bought a lot of coins that first day. These are all the coins I bought throughout the show – as you can see, I found several awesome Pretty Pennies!

I also found some nice coins to add to my raw coin inventory

PNG day ended at 2:30 and the sponsor dealers were let in at 3:00, then all dealers were let in at 4:00pm for set up. The CSNS folks left at each dealer table a nice little goodie back that included a great small bottle of window cleaner and a cloth for the cases, and these cute little M&M packs sponsored by Mitch Ernst and his family!

I was so happy to see my very good friend and ex-fellow WIN board member Cindi Wibker who is now retired from running the FUN show but was recruited to help out with the CSNS show

Billie and Amanda at Greysheet were all set up and ready to go!

After I finished setting up and making my rounds, soon it was time to open one of the bottles of wine I had brought. I usually bring my more favorite bottles to share with some of my customers and fellow dealers. And one of my favorites is this Cab from Del Dotto vineyards in Napa.

My friend and fellow dealer James Sego and PNG board member had an extra ticket to the PNG dinner so I was very happy to be able to attend this prestigious event which was held at Maggiano’s on Wednesday evening.

There were lots of coin world “dignitaries” and some special honorees who received awards for their contributions to numismatics. Robert Brueggeman was retiring after serving as its Executive Director since 1995, and was presented with a Lifetime Achievement award from Kevin Lipton.

From the PNG website:

“Bob has been PNG’s Executive Director since 1995. Under his guidance and leadership over the past 28 years, the PNG has helped support the industry, its member dealers, and the general public. The PNG has also been helpful in providing scholarships to young numismatists to help advance the professional side of the business and continue the legacy of the Professional Numismatists Guild,” said PNG Board member James Sego who co-chaired the Lifetime Achievement Award selection with PNG Board member John Brush.

Bob and his wife and daughter Tina

John Feigenbaum will succeed Brueggeman as the next PNG Executive Director.

Cindy Wibker, who recently joined the Central States Numismatic Society convention team after 30 successful years as Convention Coordinator for Florida United Numismatists, received the Significant Contribution Award for her exceptional dedication and beneficial contributions to the hobby and profession.

It was a wonderful event, the food was amazing, and it was especially great to see everyone!

Then, of course, it was back to the hotel bar for more coin dealers just having some fun!

For some reason, on display right outside the hotel bar was this neat old LC Smith Secretarial typewriter and ship’s bell.

After all that socializing, Thursday morning came too soon! But as usual, I arrived early at the show, took care of some paperwork, processed some of my newps to show to customers, and got ready for the anticipated large crowd that had begun gathering in the lobby! I quickly snapped a couple shots before folks began streaming onto the bourse floor.

After the show opened on Thursday, sadly there was an announcement that long-time coin dealer Tim Lapointe had suddenly passed away Wednesday night after set up from a heart attack. I didn’t know him personally but had seen him at many shows. My prayers are with his friends and family.

@keyman64 was one of the first forum members to stop by my table and say hi

This is Bob who is a very enjoyable and fun customer of mine who loves beautifully toned Indian cents. He likes to charm me with wonderful bottles of wine – which works every time! I showed him some of my new purchases and of course he picked out one of the most beautifully toned Indian cent proofs I’ve ever owned!

This is Gary Minsey – he showed me this AMAZING and super rare 1795 dollar he had purchased a while ago. He wanted to compare it to the one on display at the show. He said they were both very similar in condition and he was very curious to see what it would bring at auction.

Current ANA President Dr. Ross and his lovely wife Phyllis stopped by and said hi. Phyllis is running for ANA Board of Governors

The helpful CSNS folks at the Message Center

Security was very tight at this show, and security guards and police were very prevalent throughout the show, especially at the door. This security guard was at the front door and was very serious about doing his job, and was very friendly as well.

I did acquire a few interesting pieces for my own personal collection – this is an really neat double struck in the collar Indian cent that I bought on Thursday. The second strike is rotated more than 90 degrees!

I found an encased 1926 Lincoln cent in a scarce bell-shaped aluminum encasement from Washington D.C.

A customer came up to my table and offered me this beautiful uncirculated 1858 LL Flying Eagle cent that he said he’d had in the back of his drawer for years. I don’t usually care much for coins struck through grease filled dies but this one is so dramatic with so much detail missing on both sides that I was happy to add it to my collection (I sent it to PCGS to be certified). At first I thought it might have gotten this way from being struck on a tilted die since the date is still pretty sharp and the rest of the coin shows little detail, but since all of the denticles were fully struck, I believe it has to have been struck through greased filled dies, including the reverse.

Thursday was soooooo busy almost the entire day that I never left my table so I wasn’t able to take many photos around the bourse floor. My sales on Thursday were more than any other one day of any show! By the end of the day I was so exhausted (I’m sure staying out late Wednesday night had a little something to do with that). So it was pretty late in the afternoon when I finally poured a glass of what was left of the Del Dotto Cab. After things died down at the end of the day, a couple of my dealer friends stopped by so I opened the other bottle of wine I had brought – a Justin Zinfandel. I belong to Justin Winery out of Paso Robles. This Zinfandel is delicious and very different from other Zinfandels I’ve had, it’s sort of spicey and on the dry side, very delicious.

Thursday night we went to Chicago Prime Steakhouse for dinner. It is one of the best steakhouses I’ve ever been to! It’s a bit pricey, but once in a while it’s nice to splurge, which is why we ordered this wonderful bottle of Stag’s Leap to go with our steak!

After the Stag’s Leap was finished, we had a delicious bottle of Prisoner

I ordered the beef wellington which was amazing – I could only eat one of them so I had the second one for lunch the next day!

Here are some of the other delicious dishes that were ordered at our table

After dinner on Thursday, of course we went back to the hotel bar for a nightcap – or two!

Nara Schuch (wife of Steven Schuch) and I discovered we both like good tequilas so we asked the bartender to recommend one. He recommended this Gran Coramino Anejo tequila and it was absolutely delicious! I was surprised that it had a bit of a sweet flavor and was a very smooth sipping tequila. I really enjoyed it and it made for a nice nightcap.

Friday morning I took the opportunity before the public was let in and I got too busy to walk around the bourse and take photos of the displays, dealers and vendors.

PCGS

NGC

Doug Davis of Numismatic Crime Prevention

Daniel Frank Sedwick who specialize in Latin American Shipwreck Coins, etc.

David Lawrence Rare Coins

When I walked over to the DLRC table, John flagged me down to look at some large cent coins, which I examined. I asked what was special about them and he told me they were counterfeit! I couldn’t believe it, they were so well done that it was really hard to tell. Jack Young who is an expert in detecting counterfeit coins was showing John several coins that had actually gotten past the certifying companies and were still in their holders. Jack also showed me why these coins were actually counterfeits, and I can tell you, unless you knew exactly what to look for, they would have gotten past most dealers and collectors and even some experts. It’s very, very scary how good these counterfeiters really are!

Believe it or not, these are all counterfeits!

I also went by the GreatCollections table and took pictures of the coins they had on display, including several HUGE rarities!

During the show on Friday, a dealer offered me these two amazing freshly graded 1909-S VDB cents that he bought raw from an old estate and had graded on a walk-thru at this show. These two beauties hadn’t seen the light of day in many years! One graded PCGS MS65 RD and the other graded PCGS MS66 RB, so of course I just had to have them!

My longtime friend Mike Noodle who co-hosts The Coin Show podcast stopped by and brought me this special bottle of hot sauce he created – I know my hubby will love it as he’s into very hot hot sauce!

A very kind and thoughtful customer friend engraved this key chain especially for me – I love it!

My dear friend Linda Hagopian and wife of my old “How to Create a Winning Exhibit” Summer Seminar instructor Larry Sekulich (who stopped by earlier) came by to say hi – it is always great to chat with her and share a glass of wine together – we finished off the last of the Justin Zinfandel!

That night I went to dinner with my “dark side” friends from Daniel Frank Sedwick and Karl and Joanne Stephens. We tried a new steakhouse called Perry, and we were not disappointed! They had excellent food and a great wine list.

Throughout our dinner, we had three different wines so they gave each of us three different wine glasses, which practically covered up the entire the table!

This time I had lobster and pasta with a small filet, and we had a lot of different very tasty side dishes as well. Everyone really enjoyed their dishes.

After dinner we all had a wonderful Port wine which was a perfect ending to an amazing meal!

With such a large party, we ended up not leaving the restaurant until almost 10pm, and when we got back to the hotel, the regular hotel bar was closed for a private party so some of the dealers had moved to the smaller bar. A couple of my friends were there and we had one drink, then called it a night.

Saturday morning I took my time getting to the show as I knew once I was there I basically needed to pack up and leave since I had an early flight home – I couldn’t get a later flight without having to make a connection. I did manage to take a photo before I left with my favorite coin show couple – Dino and his lovely wife Lisa!

It was raining on Saturday but luckily not too hard with no tornado warnings like last year that delayed many flights including mine! I made it to the airport with no problems, and and settled into my seat for my 3 1/2 hour flight home.

Here are several pics I took from way up high, including several of the Grand Canyon as we flew right over it!

And these are pics of the two historical huge WWII Blimp hangars at the old Tustin Air Base which is located just east of the OC/John Wayne Airport.

My hubby is once again helping out his friends at the NORRA 1000 Mexican Baja race (no, not racing – just pitting and chasing for his friend), which always occurs the same time as the CSNS show, so my son picked me up at the airport. It is always nice to get home after a week of activities and late nights. On Sunday, I began working on my new purchases and of course, there was cutie Penny trying to make sure I noticed her by taking over one of my coin boxes and checking out what all those plastic things are!

So I have to say, this was a really good show, with tons of pre-show marketing, very busy, with lots of great sales and purchases, plus the added benefit of extra social gatherings. I already signed up for next year’s show and expect that it will be a very successful show as well. Most everything at this show went very smoothly, with only a couple tiny glitches that I’m sure Larry and crew are aware of (the various show times for dealers and public was a bit confusing, plus there were no dealer table numbers posted on the website just before the show). The CSNS staff deserves huge credit for everything they did to make this show as successful as it was – thank you very much, we appreciate all you did!

Next up: My local Buena Park show and then the Long Beach show in June!

Edited May 3, 2023 by The Penny Lady

[USAuPzlBxBob]

Charmy, to see your photos, I have to click on each blue question mark box, and then close the opened window before going further.

Your last thread — The ANA Phoenix National Money Show — the photos are all easily seen.

[The Penny Lady]

On 5/3/2023 at 10:32 AM, USAuPzlBxBob said:

Charmy, to see your photos, I have to click on each blue question mark box, and then close the opened window before going further.

Your last thread — The ANA Phoenix National Money Show — the photos are all easily seen.

Don't know what happened, but I think it's fixed now - thank you for letting me know.

[RWB]

...It's the cat that did it !

[GoldFinger1969]

On 5/3/2023 at 10:14 AM, The Penny Lady said:

It’s been a couple days since I returned from the Central States show in Schaumburg and I’m still trying to dig out from all the coins I sold and purchased, as well as the dreaded paperwork that always follows after a large coin show. There was so much activity at the show this year, starting for me from the Greysheet reception on Tuesday evening all the way through the end of the show. I was busy at my table almost consistently throughout each day, then grabbing a quick drink with friends right after the show, then attending social events and dinners each evening, followed by more gatherings at the hotel bar after dinner events! Big kudos and applause to Larry, Mitch, and all of their staff and helpers who made this show the huge success it was! 

So I have to say, this was a really good show, with tons of pre-show marketing, very busy, with lots of great sales and purchases, plus the added benefit of extra social gatherings. I already signed up for next year’s show and expect that it will be a very successful show as well. Most everything at this show went very smoothly, with only a couple tiny glitches that I’m sure Larry and crew are aware of (the various show times for dealers and public was a bit confusing, plus there were no dealer table numbers posted on the website just before the show). The CSNS staff deserves huge credit for everything they did to make this show as successful as it was – thank you very much, we appreciate all you did!

Next up: My local Buena Park show and then the Long Beach show in June!

It seems like this show was a real bang-up success, Charmy.  Pre-2020, the reports I saw said Central States was losing out to ANA, Long Beach, and FUN.  Looks like pent-up demand and/or all the new entrants to our hobby during Covid have given it new life.

Seems like you could detect that you were busy during show hours continuously, which is a good "tell" for attendance, buying interest, etc. 

Edited May 3, 2023 by GoldFinger1969

[zadok]

...as always THE CLASS ACT...never disappoints....

[DSessom]

Counterfeits in real PCGS/NGC slabs? Man, that really doesn't do much to boost confidence, does it? That is very scary...

[GoldFinger1969]

On 5/3/2023 at 6:25 PM, DSessom said:

Counterfeits in real PCGS/NGC slabs? Man, that really doesn't do much to boost confidence, does it? That is very scary...

Can anybody give an approximate value for what those counterfeits were trying to replicate ?  We talking $300 coins....or $3,000 ? 

[jtryka]

Always a great report, and happy to see we have similar tastes in wine!

[Sandon]

On 5/3/2023 at 7:46 PM, GoldFinger1969 said:

On 5/3/2023 at 6:25 PM, DSessom said:

Counterfeits in real PCGS/NGC slabs? Man, that really doesn't do much to boost confidence, does it? That is very scary...

Can anybody give an approximate value for what those counterfeits were trying to replicate ?  We talking $300 coins....or $3,000 ? 

   The 1806 (small "6", presumably without stems) half cent would have a retail value of $550 or so.  The five large cents, if "straight graded", would have retail values ranging from $2,250 to about $4,000, but I would figure about a 50% discount due to the severity of the impairments perceived by the graders, which would still be substantial values. The impairments would have been created by the counterfeiters to make the coins look their purported age. Hopefully, these mostly PCGS graded coins will be covered by a grading guarantee for anyone who bought them in these holders, presuming that the grading services agree that they graded and encapsulated counterfeit coins. This is, indeed, scary, considering that coins in these holders are presumed to have been duly authenticated by professionals. 

[GoldFinger1969]

On 5/3/2023 at 10:09 PM, Sandon said:

This is, indeed, scary, considering that coins in these holders are presumed to have been duly authenticated by professionals. 

And yet, over the years, when I have suggested (or stated emphatically) that spending a few more seconds on the conveyor belt of coins for older ones where known fakes are common would be a wise investment....I've been told REPEATEDLY that whether they spend 12 seconds on coins like this or 45 seconds it won't matter. 

[Fenntucky Mike]

On 5/3/2023 at 10:09 PM, Sandon said:

The 1806 (small "6", presumably without stems) half cent would have a retail value of $550 or so.  The five large cents, if "straight graded", would have retail values ranging from $2,250 to about $4,000, but I would figure about a 50% discount due to the severity of the impairments perceived by the graders, which would still be substantial values. The impairments would have been created by the counterfeiters to make the coins look their purported age. Hopefully, these mostly PCGS graded coins will be covered by a grading guarantee for anyone who bought them in these holders, presuming that the grading services agree that they graded and encapsulated counterfeit coins. This is, indeed, scary, considering that coins in these holders are presumed to have been duly authenticated by professionals. 

I'd be interested to know your opinion or any other large cent collectors opinion on the quality of these fakes? Are they exceptionally deceptive or not, etc.. That is if there is enough info to base an opinion on from the available photos and TPG images, if available. I haven't looked myself yet but hope to have some time this weekend to study them.

[J P M]

Thank you for the wonderful pictures and information Charmy . Always nice to see your trips.

[The 12th Denticle]

Thank you for your post. Very nice pictures and stories 

[Tyrock]

Great post. Those counterfeit coins were interesting to hear about.

[The Penny Lady]

Thank you everyone for all your kind comments. I'm very glad to see that coin shows are thriving and even getting busier and better. It's also great to see more and more young adults participating and working the shows as well.

The ANA and the CSNS show in particular make a point of adding the social aspect to their shows. It's not just the fun part, which it definitely is, but to me, this is a very important part of coin shows as it helps us get to know the folks we deal/work with, gives us more knowledge about what's going on in the numismatic world, and I learn who I can refer customers to if I don't have what they're looking for, and vice versa. The cocktail hour and dinner events to me are a great asset and huge benefit to participating in coin shows.

The counterfeit issue is really scary and frustrating, and requires that everyone be very diligent and know the series that they collect. And it certainly doesn't hurt to take any counterfeit detection class available, especially the in depth ones offered at the ANA Summer Seminar. The counterfeits I saw and posted about in this show report were very deceptive. I couldn't tell they were counterfeits until Jack showed me the specific signs on these coins - whoever made them knew how to try and make them look as authentic as possible, even using real planchets from old worn out coins. Next time you're at a large show and you see Jack Young, ask him to show you any counterfeit coins he may have with him. He's very knowledgeable and very willing to share that knowledge.

[VKurtB]

My very strongly held opinion is that the show-going hobby is faaaaaar more attuned to how pervasive the counterfeit coins in counterfeit slabs problem is. The collectors steeped in the culture of “I’d rather spend what YOU do on travel, on another coin online” are whistling past the graveyard. They CAN’T admit how pervasive fraud and fraudsters are online because it ruins their theory of the case. On the Internet, you only get exposed to the information you actively seek out. At shows, information of all sorts comes rushing headlong AT YOU. Sometimes it’s INCREDIBLY VALUABLE information you might never search for online. Every time I go to an ANA show (actually NOT JUST A COIN SHOW, but an industry CONVENTION) the best stuff I learn is about things I had never considered going in. Wholly unexpected topics. That’s where Roger’s method of research fails, too. He never sees what’s happening, only what some past self-dealing self-interested bureaucrat thought was important enough to write down and/or save and archive. You have to BE IN THE ARENA, actively participating, observing, questioning, challenging people, and critically thinking. 

Edited May 6, 2023 by VKurtB

[zadok]

On 5/6/2023 at 12:41 PM, VKurtB said:

My very strongly held opinion is that the show-going hobby is faaaaaar more attuned to how pervasive the counterfeit coins in counterfeit slabs problem is. The collectors steeped in the culture of “I’d rather spend what YOU do on travel, on another coin online” are whistling past the graveyard. They CAN’T admit how pervasive fraud and fraudsters are online because it ruins their theory of the case. On the Internet, you only get exposed to the information you actively seek out. At shows, information of all sorts comes rushing headlong AT YOU. Sometimes it’s INCREDIBLY VALUABLE information you might never search for online. Every time I go to an ANA show (actually NOT JUST A COIN SHOW, but an industry CONVENTION) the best stuff I learn is about things I had never considered going in. Wholly unexpected topics. That’s where Roger’s method of research fails, too. He never sees what’s happening, only what some past self-dealing self-interested bureaucrat thought was important enough to write down and/or save and archive. You have to BE IN THE ARENA, actively participating, observing, questioning, challenging people, and critically thinking. 

...could not agree more...especially ur take on archive contents, only as good as the submitter n then only includes what they wanted it to include...his biggest failure, n its huge, is that "ifs it not in the archives it didnt happen"...in so many instances the coins themselves dispute his contentions, assumptions n biases ...real coin collectors r much like combat veterans, either u were there or u werent....

[Henri Charriere]

Back on Track.  🤣

Having never stepped foot inside a coin show or coin convention, I appreciate the time, trouble and phenomenal memory you've relied on to bring a world I am wholly unacquainted with to my fingertips--bookended with your fine signature "Penny".

[VKurtB]

On 5/6/2023 at 12:49 PM, zadok said:

his biggest failure, n its huge, is that "ifs it not in the archives it didnt happen".

THIS belief is literally clinically insane. 

[Henri Charriere]

On 5/6/2023 at 6:46 PM, VKurtB said:

THIS belief is literally clinically insane. 

Not so fast. Insanity is a legal term and not a medical condition. Not everyone is cut out for that kind of intensive work. I don't believe I am.

[VKurtB]

On 5/6/2023 at 6:42 PM, Henri Charriere said:

Not so fast. Insanity is a legal term and not a medical condition. Not everyone is cut out for that kind of intensive work. I don't believe I am.

It’s a numismatic condition, afflicting at least a sizable plurality of practitioners. Regarding Roger’s case, “it ain’t what he don’t know that’s the prollem, it’s what he knows fer sure that just ain’t so.”

Edited May 7, 2023 by VKurtB

[The Penny Lady]

Here's an article that Jack Young wrote about these counterfeits, it's very enlightening and well worth the read:  https://coinweek.com/from-the-dark-corner-counterfeit-early-coppers-in-genuine-tpg-holders/?fbclid=IwAR1lwFG4kYGFf9272zRYhPQYLrjED6GzKd5ZOB0Vm2V3i9tI0oU3MV-0A8Y

[GoldFinger1969]

Thanks Charmy....and thanks for spending the time to post your reports and information on multiple sites.  I know it takes time, but it's good for the entire hobby that you spread your information across multiple forums. 

We are onto the counterfeiters.  Now if we can just get rid of this dead white space....

Edited May 7, 2023 by GoldFinger1969

[JYoung5050]

It was great to talk with you there Charmy, and really good report as always!

In answer to the note "I'd be interested to know your opinion or any other large cent collectors opinion on the quality of these fakes? Are they exceptionally deceptive or not, etc.. That is if there is enough info to base an opinion on from the available photos and TPG images, if available. I haven't looked myself yet but hope to have some time this weekend to study them", these are extremely deceptive! The 1798 "S-158" was originally thought to be a possible new Sheldon variety until a couple more with the same defects and diagnostics found. And the 1797 S-139 was considered one of the top 15 of the variety until also proven fake. Bad coins in genuine holders as genuine, certs have been deactivated.

Counterfeits seem to be everywhere, including the Show Guide they had for us...

Best, Jack.