3-cent 1851 3 Cent RPD Questions 1 1

[Burk]

8 or 10 years ago I purchased the pictured 1851 RPD 3 cent silver.  I'm hoping I can get some feedback on the grade and maybe the approximate value.  Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

[Coinbuf]

Welcome to the forum, that is a very nice repunched date, yours is FS-302.   From your photos I would think AU55 for the grade, unfortunately there are not a lot of these that have been certified by NGC/PCGS so there is very limited auction data available to review for this variety.   Recent auction results for a normal 1851 have been in the $180-$240 range for coins certified as AU55, I'm sure the variety would add some value but how much I am uncertain about.   Values for varieties really depend on how many collectors want or need that variety, there are not a lot of collectors that build sets of these trimes so there may not be a large demand for varieties in this series.

Hopefully someone has a better handle on this variety and can chime in with better pricing data.

[Just Bob]

It could have been cleaned in the past, but to be honest, a slight cleaning that doesn't leave obvious hairlines really doesn't bother me on a coin this small. I would put the grade at VF, and estimate the value at around $75 raw. It looks like, in addition to the repunched date, that it has a die crack and shows signs of die clashing. Those add character, in my opinion, and might add a few dollars to the value for some collectors. Nice coin, in my opinion.

Edited to add: Coinbuf posted while I was typing. I think this may be the first time we have been this far apart in our estimate of grade. It will be interesting to see how other members interpret these pics.

Edited April 6, 2023 by Just Bob

[Burk]

On 4/6/2023 at 2:09 PM, Coinbuf said:

Welcome to the forum, that is a very nice repunched date, yours is FS-302.   From your photos I would think AU55 for the grade, unfortunately there are not a lot of these that have been certified by NGC/PCGS so there is very limited auction data available to review for this variety.   Recent auction results for a normal 1851 have been in the $180-$240 range for coins certified as AU55, I'm sure the variety would add some value but how much I am uncertain about.   Values for varieties really depend on how many collectors want or need that variety, there are not a lot of collectors that build sets of these trimes so there may not be a large demand for varieties in this series.

Hopefully someone has a better handle on this variety and can chime in with better pricing data.

That's funny.  I'm a super novice, but I had it pegged at AU55 as well.  It will be interesting to get additional feedback.  Thanks for your response!

[Burk]

On 4/6/2023 at 2:09 PM, Just Bob said:

It could have been cleaned in the past, but to be honest, a slight cleaning that doesn't leave obvious hairlines really doesn't bother me on a coin this small. I would put the grade at VF, and estimate the value at around $75 raw. It looks like, in addition to the repunched date, that it has a die crack and shows signs of die clashing. Those add character, in my opinion, and might add a few dollars to the value for some collectors. Nice coin, in my opinion.

Edited to add: Coinbuf posted while I was typing. I think this may be the first time we have been this far apart in our estimate of grade. It will be interesting to see how other members interpret these pics.

In my viewing other examples, I think all I've seen that of this variety have die cracks that are the same as on my coin, and many have even more pronounced die clashing.

[J P M]

It is a nice piece, the crack looks rim to rim which is always better. Nice date and clash and even looks like some luster left around some of the devices I am thinking 50 to 55.  

[JKK]

EF-40. It has a little bit of residual mint luster, expected in EF grades, but the star lines are just too worn (as in almost gone) for it to even take a huff of AU.

[Sandon]

   Silver three cent pieces, especially Types 1 and 2, can be difficult to grade due to irregular striking characteristics. For a basic grading guide see https://www.pcgs.com/photograde#/3CentSil/Grades.  Your coin may have been improperly "cleaned" to remove more of the "crud" that can still be seen in protected areas of the reverse, although it is difficult to tell from the photos. It appears to be in the Extremely Fine to lower (50-53) About Uncirculated range in terms of details.

   Regarding the FS-302 repunched date variety, see https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/1851-3cs-rpd-fs-302-001-5/38574 . The PCGS Price Guide retail values given there show $300 or more for a coin in the unimpaired AU grade range, but these prices tend to be high and aren't supported by auction data in that range. These values are also for coins that have been certified by PCGS,

   I like this series, but there aren't a lot of collectors who avidly pursue them or their varieties.  This is good for buyers, but probably not for sellers.

[PDStor]

Looks sharp, still has its rim unlike mine, which otherwise has all the same details intact as yours does (including the shield lines) so yours is a step above mine at least! There's a dull appearance to it but I'm not an expert at detecting cleaning, so it may just be normal wear and tear. VF+ or XF is my lowly beginner-tier opinion, but if it is below VF I'll eat my hat. 

[EagleRJO]

The coin is a 1851 Type-1 Silver Small Star 3 Cent FS-302 RPD variety that is probably an XF to low AU grade as suggested, but more like XF to me with the apparent minor wear and comparing it to that grade from PCG$ CoinFacts FX grade attached.

The crud or dirt on the coin obscures some of the detail, such as shield lines and star on the obverse, but they are there perhaps with some slight wear.  Also, NGC values these coins as follows, which I have been finding are more consistent with recent bid results due to unreasonably inflated PCG$ prices.

https://www.ngccoin.com/price-guide/united-states/three-cents/20/

So it would be in the $100 to $150 range, not considering the RPD (which probably wouldn't add much) or considering that it looks like it was cleaned, which could knock off about 1/4 to 1/3 of the value.  It looks like there is dark crud remaining around and within some of the lettering and devices that they couldn't get to when it was cleaned.

NGC guide prices appear to be consistent with bid results at Great Collections (linked below), so likely $65 to $75 XF Details - Cleaned for the op's coin, including the reduction for being cleaned.

Great Collections Auction Archives 1851 3C Silver Coin

Edited April 8, 2023 by EagleRJO

[powermad5000]

These coins are harder to get high grades on being besides the stars on the reverse, and the shield on the obverse, there are not many fine details to wear down. What I note on your coin is that the lines surrounding the shield are no longer completely separate from wear, and the stars on the reverse have lost the point in the center as well as the fine lines in the stars which would put this coin imho at XF 40 details. However, it appears to have been cleaned (most likely improperly). Die cracks, while a feature of the coin, do not add to a coin's value unless there were so many cracks it is evident that the die shattered while making the strike.

With the cleaning, and the wear, even with the RPD, I would estimate the value of your coin to be between $50-$60.

That said, in NGC VarietyPlus, I believe your coin to be the 1851/851 FS-302 recognized variety. The two below pics are from the NGC VarietyPlus page and I believe mimic the RPD on your coin.

Edited April 7, 2023 by powermad5000

[RWB]

The coin is EF 40 to 45 for abrasion, but is dull and lifeless - probably from cleaning. Alloy in 1851 was 0.750 silver which discolors more easily than standard 0.900 silver. Coins dipped in an acid to remove tarnish often have a very slight "pink" hue cause by the copper alloy. The repunched date is a very good example of use of a 4-digit logotype beginning with distortion of the left "1."

Value (not "price") is about $75. Not worth the cost of slabbing.

Study the photos EagleRJO posted, and look at other examples from auction sites.

Edited April 7, 2023 by RWB