conservation for already graded assets w/environmental damage AND one with known damage 1 1

[dccyber]

I've not used NGC's conservation services yet and I'm considering it with the following 2 coins.  One graded with 'environmental damage' and one that is ungraded but has damage [A 10 cash Chong Ning Zhong Bao (Heavy Treasure) referenced on Hartill (page 151) 16.406, 7, 8 and 9.].   Would either of these coins be a good candidate? 

[Coinbuf]

No one can undo environmental damage, no amount of conservation can make a damaged coin undamaged.   Unless there is active corrosion happening on the constellatio there is nothing NCS can or will do.

The other coin might be able to be conserved, but again it will still always be environmentally damaged.  But if there is active corrosion on the coin, getting that off will stop further progressing of the corrosion. 

[dccyber]

On 3/14/2023 at 10:59 AM, Coinbuf said:

No one can undo environmental damage, no amount of conservation can make a damaged coin undamaged.   Unless there is active corrosion happening on the constellatio there is nothing NCS can or will do.

The other coin might be able to be conserved, but again it will still always be environmentally damaged.  But if there is active corrosion on the coin, getting that off will stop further progressing of the corrosion. 

The only thing i see on the constellatio is a touch off verdigris but it's hard to see without magnification.  Can they / will they, remove verdigris?  It's a shame this coin came back as damaged as it's such a great piece. 

[Just Bob]

On 3/14/2023 at 10:35 AM, dccyber said:

 It's a shame this coin came back as damaged as it's such a great piece. 

That is a really nice piece, even with the environmental damage. 

[dccyber]

On 3/14/2023 at 11:56 AM, Just Bob said:

That is a really nice piece, even with the environmental damage. 

The history of Robert Morris is quite fascinating... He really drove the concept of decimal accounting and influenced Alexander Hamilton and Thomas Jefferson (who in turn influenced the U.S. Dollar)--as I understand it, both became champions of the decimal concept after examining Morris’s coins.  This coin is part of that history and it just disappoints me that it's tagged with a word like 'damage' -- to me it diminishes what the coin represents... 

[Coinbuf]

On 3/14/2023 at 8:35 AM, dccyber said:

The only thing i see on the constellatio is a touch off verdigris but it's hard to see without magnification.  Can they / will they, remove verdigris?  It's a shame this coin came back as damaged as it's such a great piece. 

In theory NGC would have recommended conservation to whomever submitted the coin if they felt it would be helpful.   Now that submitter may have declined any conservation recommended, so we cannot say for 100% if NCS was or was not offered.   You could try and contact customer service and see if they can provide any information on if NCS services were offered when the coin was last seen.   No guarantee that they can or will provide such information, but it only costs you a bit of time to inquire before you incur the shipping costs.

NCS will only perform conservation services if they feel, after evaluating the coin, that the services will remove any surface contamination without damaging the coin any further than it already is.   Other than the shipping costs it will not hurt to send both coins in for evaluation by NCS, keeping in mind that NCS may decline to do anything.   Make sure that you notify NCS what it is (and where) you see on the coin surface, I guess the raw coin is fairly obvious, but if the verdigris on the constellatio needs magnification to see it could be missed if not pointed out.

The constellatio certainly is a cool and historic coin, congrats on having it in your collection. 

[powermad5000]

The only time I have had NGC recommend a coin be sent to NCS for conservation is in the case of PVC contamination (in which case NGC will not slab a coin with PVC residue), which NCS is able to remove. I am not 100 percent sure if NCS can remove verdigris, but I believe they are able to do that. I would contact NCS and verify that. Conservation can stabilize the surface of a coin to prevent further damage, but conservation does not reverse environmental damage already imposed on a coin. The worst that could happen is if you send them for conservation, and NCS rejects them for their services not being able to help the coin. I don't think you get charged if they don't work on a coin, but I could also be wrong on that.

[dccyber]

I’m going to submit the 10 cash at the baltimore show this week and check the box and see what happens.  I also pinged the help desk to ask about the constellatio.  Thanks for all your help.  I’ll follow up when I learn more.

 

ps I also read here that they can remove artificial toning.

Edited March 14, 2023 by dccyber

[powermad5000]

On 3/14/2023 at 6:55 PM, dccyber said:

ps I also read here that they can remove artificial toning.

Thanks for that! I actually never read that subpart. I am wondering if they can do something for altered color. I now have a mission to find out.

[bsshog40]

EZ-zest will actually take off toning, but you have to be careful with it as it will remove luster also. 

[VKurtB]

Read on the topic of “entropy”. Damage is a one-way street. The entire topic of preserving one’s coins is nothing more than an attempt to slow down entropy. 

[dccyber]

@Coinbuf Thanks for the recommendation to ask NGC support about the Constellatio.  They were great.  Here is feedback "We see this coin was not flagged to be a candidate for conservation as all coins submitted for grading our evaluated to see if they would be candidates for NCS services.  This coin was not flagged for this which means this coin would not benefit from NCS services.  We hope this information assisted you today.  Have a nice weekend."

At the Baltimore show this past week they had a specialist look at the Constellatio and 10 Cash -- Conservation will not change the grade away from 'details' on either coin. I decided to submit the 10 cash as they can try to stop any damage that might be continuing.  

NGC's customer service at the show and online have been excellent.  

fyi -- someone also pointed me to this: https://www.ngccoin.com/pdf/details_grading_brochure.pdf and it's very good.