Popular Post JamieinMN Posted February 13, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted February 13, 2023 (edited) The Hindenburg medal by Karl Goetz is sometimes labeled X-1 Silver and other times Kienast-386. Why is there 2 different names for the same thing, or are they labeled different for some reason I'm not noticing? If so, what? I've seen this on both NGC and PCGS. Couple examples: Edited February 17, 2023 by JamieinMN edited to add rev to original post Hoghead515, Mr.Bill347 and portmanson 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmarguli Posted February 15, 2023 Share Posted February 15, 2023 I don't know the answer other than they probably switched reference books at some point in time, going from the Bruce book to the Kienast book. I've also see these labeled as 5 Mark, Medallic 5 Mark, and Medal. So it seems that they aren't consistent on that either. JamieinMN 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VKurtB Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 On 2/15/2023 at 5:11 PM, gmarguli said: I don't know the answer other than they probably switched reference books at some point in time, going from the Bruce book to the Kienast book. I've also see these labeled as 5 Mark, Medallic 5 Mark, and Medal. So it seems that they aren't consistent on that either. If you’re looking for consistency, you’re in the wrong hobby. NGC often can’t even spell “PIEDFORT”. JamieinMN and JT2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleRJO Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 I not that familiar with these, but I do know the currency at the time in Germany was the Mark designated with an "M". So it seems the first one posted is a medal and the second one posted is currency, likely with distinctly different reverses. https://www.ngccoin.com/census/world/karl-goetz-medals-keinast/sc-379/silver/ https://www.ngccoin.com/price-guide/world/germany-weimar-republic-5-mark-x-84-1927-cuid-1178922-duid-1320236 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieinMN Posted February 16, 2023 Author Share Posted February 16, 2023 On 2/15/2023 at 7:43 PM, EagleRJO said: I not that familiar with these, but I do know the currency at the time in Germany was the Mark designated with an "M". So it seems the first one posted is a medal and the second one posted is currency, likely with distinctly different reverses. https://www.ngccoin.com/census/world/karl-goetz-medals-keinast/sc-379/silver/ https://www.ngccoin.com/price-guide/world/germany-weimar-republic-5-mark-x-84-1927-cuid-1178922-duid-1320236 The reverse is the same on both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWB Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 The piece has a 5 mark denomination on the reverse. Therefore, it is a coin and not a medal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmarguli Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 On 2/16/2023 at 8:01 AM, RWB said: The piece has a 5 mark denomination on the reverse. Therefore, it is a coin and not a medal. There is no denomination on the reverse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleRJO Posted February 16, 2023 Share Posted February 16, 2023 On 2/15/2023 at 11:00 PM, JamieinMN said: The reverse is the same on both. Can you post pictures of the reverse for both. JamieinMN 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWB Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 (edited) On 2/16/2023 at 5:21 PM, gmarguli said: There is no denomination on the reverse. Funf Reichmark. OK...I see my mistake. I looked at incorrectly labeled pieces. The coins are 5 marks and the medals have a different rev inscription. Otherwise coin and medal are nearly identical. Edited February 17, 2023 by RWB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieinMN Posted February 17, 2023 Author Share Posted February 17, 2023 (edited) the 2 in my original post are the exact same on the back, which is different than the enlarged one that RWB just posted. Kienast-386 is first and X-1 is the second one Edited February 17, 2023 by JamieinMN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieinMN Posted February 17, 2023 Author Share Posted February 17, 2023 One thing to note, PCGS has 3 versions of the X-1 https://www.pcgs.com/valueview/pattern-unusual-coins-1919-1933/1927-d-5-mk-x-1-silver/3667?sn=515599&h=pop https://www.pcgs.com/valueview/pattern-unusual-coins-1919-1933/1927-d-5-mk-x-1-silver-sm-bayer/3667?sn=838169&h=pop https://www.pcgs.com/valueview/pattern-unusual-coins-1919-1933/1927-d-5-mk-x-1-silver-lg-bayer/3667?sn=838170&h=pop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleRJO Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 Hmmm, I was expecting the X-1 coin to have the "Funf Reichmark" (5 Mark) on the reverse, similar to enlarged example RWB gave. Interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J P M Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 (edited) I don't get it ? Is one silver and the other not. They look the same but one is a coin and one is a medal. Or they just call it whatever they want to. Edited February 17, 2023 by J P M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmarguli Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 Kienast-386 / X-1 has the medal reverse. However, the Bruce (X) book calls them 5 Mark, but pictures the medal. Kienast-387 / Schaaf-327xxx has the 5 mark reverse. I suspect these are greatly misidentified when being sold. I've sold dozens of them and never noticed the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmarguli Posted February 17, 2023 Share Posted February 17, 2023 On 2/15/2023 at 4:39 PM, VKurtB said: If you’re looking for consistency, you’re in the wrong hobby. NGC often can’t even spell “PIEDFORT”. I think you mean Piéfort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VKurtB Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 On 2/17/2023 at 1:51 PM, gmarguli said: I think you mean Piéfort. Not according to the British, no. My piedfort coins are British, not French. The Spink catalogs spell it “piedfort”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmarguli Posted February 21, 2023 Share Posted February 21, 2023 On 2/20/2023 at 9:00 AM, VKurtB said: Not according to the British, no. My piedfort coins are British, not French. The Spink catalogs spell it “piedfort”. At least we can agree on how it is pronounced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleRJO Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 (edited) I'm confused. I don't understand how you can have the X-1 currency coin that does not have the denomination on that coin. Was it misidentified by NGC as someone else suggested? Or perhaps I am just stuck with the mindset of how US coins are done. Edited February 22, 2023 by EagleRJO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VKurtB Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 On 2/21/2023 at 6:28 PM, EagleRJO said: perhaps I am just stuck with the mindset of how US coins are done. It’s a frequently found malady. portmanson 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portmanson Posted February 26, 2023 Share Posted February 26, 2023 it looks so beautiful i would love to have it JamieinMN 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieinMN Posted February 27, 2023 Author Share Posted February 27, 2023 It is a beauty, some I see are nicely toned, and then others, like the one I own, looks as white as the day it was minted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
