1971S Proof Prototype? 0

[lcourtney123]

I am taking classes through Ana learning and just sent in my first coins. I am very excited! I try to research as much as possible and have pictures of one of the coins I sent in for your expertise.

I think this one may be called a Proof Prototype? The back of the business strike looks different on the craters. Please help. I am so overwhelmed with it all and learning how to post as well.

Edited January 26, 2023 by lcourtney123

[ああ、助かった]

Well, the fields looks like semi-prooflike

I believe it’s a PF prototype

 

but we need to know how much grams for this coin?

[l.cutler]

Exactly what are you seeing to lead you to think it is a prototype?  It looks like a normal, but impaired, proof to me.

[JT2]

this looks like an Ike out of a brown box that wasn't taken care of.  look at all of the hairlines on the back this isn't a good thing  This doesn't look like anything special other than someone breaking it our of its plastic and handling it.

[Greenstang]

And did Ana mention that there are only 3 known prototypes in existence and they have all been certified by PCGS.

The last one for sale sold for $264,000.00.

[Sandon]

   I assume that by "Proof Prototype" you are referring to a 1971-S Proof Eisenhower dollar (over 4.2 million minted and extremely common) that has the low relief "Reverse A" or "Type 1 Reverse" instead of the higher relief "Reverse C" that was used to coin nearly all of this issue.  Your coin is the normal "Reverse C". I base this opinion upon the nearly round image of Earth and the configuration of North America, as well as the high relief of the eagle's head and upper wing, which are the same as on my own coin. The additional diagnostics for a Reverse A, some of which are described in the next paragraph, are hard to see in your photo, but don't appear to be present.

    Circulation strikes are supposed to look different from a 1971-S proof! On the Reverse A, which was used on all 1971 circulation (non-proof) strikes from all three mints except for a small number of 1971-Ds, as well as some 1972s and all 1972-Ds, "The State of Maine is huge and with a flat top.  Earth is flattened [not just weak] at the upper left.  The north part of the Gulf of Mexico has a downward bulge.  . . . Canada is almost non-existent." The craters are also weaker on the Reverse A than on the Reverse C, on which the craters "are strengthened with higher rims."  A Guide Book of United States Coins, Deluxe Edition, a.k.a "Mega Red" (7th ed. 2021) at 806-09, 822.  (There are three additional reverse styles on "Ike" dollars used in other non-Bicentennial years, especially the "Reverse E" introduced in late 1972).

  You are likely feeling overwhelmed because you are attempting to perform activities of an advanced numismatist such as die variety attribution without learning basic facts about coins and without the necessary resources and experience.  I strongly recommend that you review the following topic on this forum and acquire and learn from the resources described in it:

   

[RWB]

It's just a cleaned and damaged proof. Poor Ike...first the hair, now his dignity.

[EagleRJO]

On 1/26/2023 at 12:36 PM, lcourtney123 said:

I am taking classes through Ana learning and just sent in my first coins. I am very excited! I try to research as much as possible and have pictures of one of the coins I sent in for your expertise.

I think this one may be called a Proof Prototype? The back of the business strike looks different on the craters. Please help. I am so overwhelmed with it all and learning how to post as well.

Sounds like you are watching ANA eLearning vids and jumping around a bit, including some advanced topics as Sandon thought.  There are also quite a lot of ANA vids, which can be overwhelming itself.

Try taking it in chunks and sticking to basic ANA vids at first that cover topics like the minting process, toning, cleaning, grading, collecting strategies, etc.  Also, as a minimum you should have the Red Book and ANA Grading Standards to start, and consider addition resources on grading. 

Grading is one of the most difficult and important topics (including details coins), so pay attention to those and post raw coins from say eBay with how you would grade it for feedback.  Then get into more advanced topics like counterfeits, errors & varieties, prototypes, cherry-picking, etc.  I think this approach has served me well as I progress with the coin collecting hobby.

Also, isn't that a "D" mint mark 1971 Ike?

Edited January 28, 2023 by EagleRJO

[Coinbuf]

On 1/26/2023 at 10:36 AM, lcourtney123 said:

I am taking classes through Ana learning and just sent in my first coins. I am very excited!

 

Can you clarify what you mean when you say you "sent in", are you saying that you already sent this coin in to graded by NGC or only that you have posted the coin here on the forum.

[J P M]

It looks like a D mint mark to me ?

[Sandon]

   The mint mark is the smallish or lightly impressed "S" used on this issue. The photo is blurry.

[EagleRJO]

On 1/27/2023 at 8:39 PM, Sandon said:

   The mint mark is the smallish or lightly impressed "S" used on this issue. The photo is blurry.

I guess it could be a very small "S" that kind of looks like a "D" zoomed out.

[VKurtB]

On 1/27/2023 at 6:33 PM, RWB said:

It's just a cleaned and damaged proof. Poor Ike...first the hair, now his dignity.

… and then Mamie left to live out her final years waving hello to the undergrads walking to class at Gettysburg College. 

[VKurtB]

On 1/27/2023 at 7:35 PM, J P M said:

It looks like a D mint mark to me ?

Nope, S. This is what burns my britches in this field. People grasp onto buzzwords while reading about ultra-rarities and then talk themselves into believing they have one. This is a standard 40% silver 1971-S Ike that has been somewhat mishandled, period. IT IS NOT A PROTOTYPE ANYTHING! It is an impaired proof. Nada más. It is something less, not something greater. Here calling all Psychology Ph.D. candidates! Psychology of Coin Collectors dissertations just waiting to be researched and written. Right here!

[VKurtB]

On 1/27/2023 at 5:13 PM, Sandon said:

  You are likely feeling overwhelmed because you are attempting to perform activities of an advanced numismatist such as die variety attribution without learning basic facts about coins and without the necessary resources and experience

THIS!!!!!

[GoldFinger1969]

On 1/26/2023 at 12:36 PM, lcourtney123 said:

I think this one may be called a Proof Prototype? The back of the business strike looks different on the craters. Please help. I am so overwhelmed with it all and learning how to post as well.

We get that and don't sweat it. 

It is always EXTREMELY UNLIKELY that a coin you have is worth multiples of what you paid for it or worth 4 or 5 figures if you found it....it's almost always misinterpreting the coin's pedigree which the ANA courses you are taking will probably correct.

Just keep that in mind....it's so rare to find a super-valuable coin that you picked up for a pittance.

[GoldFinger1969]

On 1/27/2023 at 7:33 PM, RWB said:

It's just a cleaned and damaged proof. Poor Ike...first the hair, now his dignity.

Hey...lay off....I LIKE IKE !!! 

[RWB]

I do too! But the coin is U-G-L-L-L-L-Y !

[Sandon]

   Here are the clearer photos from NGC Coin Explorer of a 1971-S proof Ike Dollar, which will show that the mint mark on all of these coins is a small and somewhat clogged "S". There are no "D" mint proof "Ikes"! The reverse, which is also the normal "Reverse C", should help @lcourtney123 ascertain that her coin is, in fact, this usual version.

 

[EagleRJO]

On 1/27/2023 at 9:51 PM, VKurtB said:

Nope, S

I asked about the mint mark just based on appearance and nothing else.  It is a strangely small mark for that coin ... or maybe time for new glasses. 

[I can clearly see an "S" mark on the coin Sandon posted.]

Edited January 28, 2023 by EagleRJO

[VKurtB]

On 1/27/2023 at 9:32 PM, EagleRJO said:

I asked about the mint mark just based on appearance and nothing else.  It is a strangely small mark for that coin ... or maybe time for new glasses. 

I chalked it up to the need of a higher resolution low resolution picture, I think. Maybe. 

[VKurtB]

On 1/27/2023 at 8:57 PM, RWB said:

I do too! But the coin is U-G-L-L-L-L-Y !

But it was followed by a coin even MORE ugly, The Ugloid herself (no, not SBF’s girlfriend) Susan B. Anthony. 

[J P M]

I have many Ike's I like the coin but I am not a big fan of them for collecting. There is just to much surface with many areas that can be damaged.  Yes we know it is a S mint mark, I was just stating it just looks like a D on the photo.

[lcourtney123]

On 1/27/2023 at 6:53 PM, EagleRJO said:

Sounds like you are watching ANA eLearning vids and jumping around a bit, including some advanced topics as Sandon thought.  There are also quite a lot of ANA vids, which can be overwhelming itself.

Try taking it in chunks and sticking to basic ANA vids at first that cover topics like the minting process, toning, cleaning, grading, collecting strategies, etc.  Also, as a minimum you should have the Red Book and ANA Grading Standards to start, and consider addition resources on grading. 

Grading is one of the most difficult and important topics (including details coins), so pay attention to those and post raw coins from say eBay with how you would grade it for feedback.  Then get into more advanced topics like counterfeits, errors & varieties, prototypes, cherry-picking, etc.  I think this approach has served me well as I progress with the coin collecting hobby.

Also, isn't that a "D" mint mark 1971 Ike?

Well I started from the beginning with the videos actually, and still moving along. I have many different series I am jumping around on my own.. I just pick up a coin and start researching. Not looking mainly for value looking for knowledge at this point. Doing it is helping. I surely don't feel comfortable attempting to grade any coin I am just too new. I read a lot. I think reading others post about their coins helps the most about materials, damage, errors and such. Seems to be a lot of field area on the Ike dollars. 

I also go to the bank and rotate coins. Found a 50 cent piece with no FG on it. Then when I find 70's that are really nice looking I keep them. Just amazes me how something that old will be so fresh and undamaged. Then found some nice early 60's pieces as well. Thanks everyone for your thoughts. 

[gmarguli]

The "prototypes" that people refer to are not traditional proof strikings, more like a fine granular business strike. This coin is clearly not like that, it's solidly in the proof category. It sounds like the poster thinks this is a Type-1 reverse.

You can match the craters on your coin to the regular type on the pictures below. 

 

 

You can double check based on the weight of the coin. The regular Ike weighs 24.6 grams and the Type-1 reverse is 22.7 grams.

I believe your coin is a normal Ike and will probably come back as PR62, making it worth less than the slab.

[lcourtney123]

On 1/27/2023 at 8:51 PM, VKurtB said:

Nope, S. This is what burns my britches in this field. People grasp onto buzzwords while reading about ultra-rarities and then talk themselves into believing they have one. This is a standard 40% silver 1971-S Ike that has been somewhat mishandled, period. IT IS NOT A PROTOTYPE ANYTHING! It is an impaired proof. Nada más. It is something less, not something greater. Here calling all Psychology Ph.D. candidates! Psychology of Coin Collectors dissertations just waiting to be researched and written. Right here!

Sorry to have burned your britches. I got a hose.lol

I am here to ask for your advice and thoughts and learn from educated people. I surely wouldn't try to convince myself or talk myself into anything. I ask and try to learn. I am not even looking at value. I am not looking to be dealer I am looking for the education and have a common interest. There are some who have some really good advice and points to help me understand and see the coin differently and then some who don't. It more of just an opinion that has nothing to do with my question. 

[lcourtney123]

On 1/27/2023 at 9:05 PM, Sandon said:

   Here are the clearer photos from NGC Coin Explorer of a 1971-S proof Ike Dollar, which will show that the mint mark on all of these coins is a small and somewhat clogged "S". There are no "D" mint proof "Ikes"! The reverse, which is also the normal "Reverse C", should help @lcourtney123 ascertain that her coin is, in fact, this usual version.

 

 

 

The Reverse is so pretty the obverse seems bare. 

[VKurtB]

On 1/28/2023 at 4:01 PM, lcourtney123 said:

Sorry to have burned your britches. I got a hose.lol

I am here to ask for your advice and thoughts and learn from educated people. I surely wouldn't try to convince myself or talk myself into anything. I ask and try to learn. I am not even looking at value. I am not looking to be dealer I am looking for the education and have a common interest. There are some who have some really good advice and points to help me understand and see the coin differently and then some who don't. It more of just an opinion that has nothing to do with my question. 

Okay, here’s the dealio. I have been a serious collector for 60 years. I look at every coin I ever get, and have for 60 years. I have NEVER gotten a valuable variety, NEVER. That’s reality. I have gotten a few special coins in sets that I have purchased direct from the U.S. Mint, the most recent in 2017 or 2018. This hobby is not a treasure hunt. 
 

I guess maybe some folks are lottery ticket buyers and some just aren’t. There are no lottery tickets in my state. They’re illegal. 

Edited January 28, 2023 by VKurtB

[lcourtney123]

On 1/28/2023 at 4:05 PM, VKurtB said:

Okay, here’s the dealio. I have been a serious collector for 60 years. I look at every coin I ever get, and have for 60 years. I have NEVER gotten a valuable variety, NEVER. That’s reality. 

@VKurB Lighten up my friend. Enjoy yourself. My prayers are with you. 

[VKurtB]

On 1/28/2023 at 4:11 PM, lcourtney123 said:

@VKurB Lighten up my friend. Enjoy yourself. My prayers are with you. 

Prayers aren’t worth much, but I appreciate the sentiment. I do enjoy this hobby, immensely. But it is a money loser, not a money maker. That’s for YouTube video believers.