Wow 2021 ASE type 1 sold for what? 1 1

[Mr.Bill347]

Stacks Bowers NGC MS70 ASE sold for $85,000 !

what

ok so if I have one albeit an MS69. , gotta wonder!

[Mr.Bill347]

Granted is WAS the LAST one struck but if you recall, this coin sold out in 8 minutes and I got one!

[Fenntucky Mike]

On 9/13/2022 at 5:24 PM, Mr.Bill347 said:

Granted is WAS the LAST one struck but if you recall, this coin sold out in 8 minutes and I got one!

Did you get the 10,678,489 one and have the documentation/label to prove it? 

From what I briefly read the Mint had a special ceremony/party, whatever, and documented these. The last 250 T1's and first 250 T2's? To me these are similar to a presentation piece and I can understand a premium for them, just not that much of a premium. Holy frijoles Batman!  

Are the first 10 T2's SMS coins?  Just kidding. 

[EagleRJO]

The first one struck went for a ridiculous $80,000! And they are both bullion coins worth about $80. 

Somebody woke up the next day with a hangover wondering why they couldn't order Starbucks cause their bank account was drained. 

Edited September 13, 2022 by EagleRJO

[J P M]

Some people are just crazy . Bullion is under $20

[EagleRJO]

On 9/13/2022 at 6:27 PM, J P M said:

Some people are just crazy . Bullion is under $20

Next bender they will prolly sell it at a pawn shop for melt value. 

[zadok]

On 9/13/2022 at 5:36 PM, Fenntucky Mike said:

Did you get the 10,678,489 one and have the documentation/label to prove it? 

From what I briefly read the Mint had a special ceremony/party, whatever, and documented these. The last 250 T1's and first 250 T2's? To me these are similar to a presentation piece and I can understand a premium for them, just not that much of a premium. Holy frijoles Batman!  

Are the first 10 T2's SMS coins?  Just kidding. 

...the simple fact that they were documented as to striking order warrants them to be categorized as different than other strikings, what's that to be called remains undecided, perhaps "special, presentation, specimen ???"...if it was also documented that there was special handling i.e. removed from the dies individually n not allowed to touch other coins n preserved as such, then calling them "specimen" seems appropriate, i guess to be determined...or as Batman would say...what's a frijole, Robin!....

[EagleRJO]

I can see somewhat of a premium for a documented first or last struck coin with say special handling and provenance. But a $79, 920 premium for an $80 coin, WOW. Plus S&B likely made out like bandits on those auctions.

[Fenntucky Mike]

I went and looked at the SB catalog and the last 500 T1's and first 500 T2's were documented and divvied up between NGC and PCGS, looked like 250 apiece with NGC getting the better range of coins, IMO, 251-500 T1's and (first)1-250 T2's. Wonder how that was decided? 

EDIT TO ADD: I see that NGC assigned or strategically arranged how the coins were processed so that the last T1 coins have a descending cert # with the last coin ending in -500 and the first T2 coins have ascending cert #'s staring with -001, I would presume PCGS did something similar. The other thing that caught my eye was some of the grades assigned, there were a lot of 69's assigned by both TPG's with the lowest graded assigned that I saw being a 67 by NGC and PCGS had graded several coins at 68. I don't see a Pop Report available from NGC, but if I have some free time in the near future I might crunch the numbers from the auction catalog/website. Just found it  interesting that the condition of the 1,000 coins was that spread out for a special striking. 

Edited September 14, 2022 by Fenntucky Mike

[Mr.Bill347]

Very interesting Mike. The fix is in!

strategic money making!

 

[zadok]

On 9/14/2022 at 6:23 AM, Fenntucky Mike said:

I went and looked at the SB catalog and the last 500 T1's and first 500 T2's were documented and divvied up between NGC and PCGS, looked like 250 apiece with NGC getting the better range of coins, IMO, 251-500 T1's and (first)1-250 T2's. Wonder how that was decided? 

EDIT TO ADD: I see that NGC assigned or strategically arranged how the coins were processed so that the last T1 coins have a cert # ending in -500 and the first T2 coins have a cert # ending in -001, I would presume PCGS did something similar. The other thing that caught my eye was some of the grades assigned, there were a lot of 69's assigned by both TPG's with the lowest graded assigned that I saw being a 67 by NGC and PCGS had graded several coins at 68. I don't see a Pop Report available from NGC, but if I have some free time in the near future I might crunch the numbers from the auction catalog/website. Just found it  interesting that the condition of the 1,000 coins was that spread out for a special striking. 

...agree with ur last comment, interesting how the grades were spread out from 67-70 with today's sophisticated technology n equipment n supposedly ability to duplicate virtually identical production items...one would think if bullet manufacturers can make a billion almost identical bullets then the US mint could make 1000 virtually identical coins, i guess there would be some disparity between planchets that affect the results...couple other questions come to mind, wonder what the price differential between the first n second coins were n the last n next to last coins were?...one other thing bout grading these "special" strikings that leaves me a bit uncertain, in my mind a 70 coin is by definition...a coin as struck n without any wear...all of these coins r such coins, it seems that the more accepted definition is that the coins r now graded by miniscule imperfections even though struck under identical conditions n experience no wear...confusing to a degree to me....

[zadok]

On 9/14/2022 at 8:43 AM, Mr.Bill347 said:

Very interesting Mike. The fix is in!

strategic money making!

 

...wonder what ngc n pcgs paid to certify the coins n if the auction houses actually owned the coins their costs n did the US mint participate in the auction proceeds?....

[JT2]

TOTAL B.S.  ........  besides when did NGC and PCGS become coin brokers.. these two companies were founded on the idea that they would not be part of the inflationary market on coins and would not have a stake in weather they went up and or down in price .  they are solely supposed to be second party impartial graders.  I can Shenanigans

[RWB]

I don't see a unique certificate for each of the two bullion coins that are claimed "last" and "first." That is the critical document, not a TPG label.

[Mr.Bill347]

On 9/14/2022 at 10:26 AM, RWB said:

I don't see a unique certificate for each of the two bullion coins that are claimed "last" and "first." That is the critical document, not a TPG label.

I would agree, sure wouldn’t cough up 80 large to buy that coin without that document!

Edited September 14, 2022 by Mr.Bill347

[Mr.Bill347]

On 9/14/2022 at 9:13 AM, JT2 said:

TOTAL B.S.  ........  besides when did NGC and PCGS become coin brokers.. these two companies were founded on the idea that they would not be part of the inflationary market on coins and would not have a stake in weather they went up and or down in price .  they are solely supposed to be second party impartial graders.  I can Shenanigans

Makes me think that they have become part of the problem!

[The Neophyte Numismatist]

This buyer has more CENTS than SENSE!

[EagleRJO]

On 9/14/2022 at 8:49 AM, zadok said:

interesting how the grades were spread out from 67-70

What's also interesting is that there is such a wide spread for a specially handled coin from 67 to 70, and yet the very first and very last struck ones graded a perfect 70. No pressure there to give it a 70.

Bottom line of how I look at these things (first strike, early release, etc.) is if you take the coin out of the slab and hold it in your hand what are you left with? In this case, without certified documentation of the striking and unique identifying characteristics of the individual coins (if there even are any), you are left with just an $80 bullion coin.

Edited September 15, 2022 by EagleRJO

[Fenntucky Mike]

I took a quick look this morning at the fist 80 lots from the auction, the last 20 T1 and first 20 T2 ASE & AGE coins, and whew there is a bunch of dogs in that group. The ASE's specifically. Long story short all of the AGE's, T1 & 2, graded MS70 the break down for the T1 ASE was 67=1, 68=4,69=13 and 70=2 (only 10% graded 70), the T2 ASE didn't fair much better with 69=18, 70=2 (again, only 10% graded 70). This meant there were "condition rarities" in the ASE's which commanded much higher prices, while the others, below 70, seemed slightly suppressed. These were all NGC graded coins and honestly I'm surprised there was a 70 in the bunch for the ASE's.

On 9/14/2022 at 8:49 AM, zadok said:

wonder what the price differential between the first n second coins were n the last n next to last coins were?

AGE T1, 2nd to last coin struck (MS70) = $13,000 / AGE T1 last coin struck (MS70) = $77,500

AGE T2, 2nd coin struck (MS70) =$18,000 / AGE T2 first coin struck (MS70) = $100,000

ASE T1, 2nd to last coin struck (MS69) = $11,000 / ASE T1 last coin struck (MS70) = $85,000

ASE T2, 2nd coin struck (MS69) = $11,000 / ASE T2 first coin struck (MS70) = $80,000

On 9/14/2022 at 8:49 AM, zadok said:

one other thing bout grading these "special" strikings that leaves me a bit uncertain, in my mind a 70 coin is by definition...a coin as struck n without any wear...all of these coins r such coins, it seems that the more accepted definition is that the coins r now graded by miniscule imperfections even though struck under identical conditions n experience no wear...confusing to a degree to me....

These coins were very unimpressive to me and many were riddled with milk spots, a modern affliction. While all were without wear they were not all on par to my way of thinking, and some of the differences between the ASE's looked pretty drastic. Could be all in the photos though. 

Edited September 16, 2022 by Fenntucky Mike

[J P M]

On 9/16/2022 at 6:52 AM, Fenntucky Mike said:

I took a quick look this morning at the fist 80 lots from the auction, the last 20 T1 and first 20 T2 ASE & AGE coins, and whew there a bunch of dogs in that group. The ASE's specifically. Long story short all of the AGE's, T1 & 2, graded MS70 the break down for the T1 ASE was 67=1, 68=4,69=13 and 70=2 (only 10% graded 70), the T2 ASE didn't fair much better with 69=18, 70=2 (again, only 10% graded 70). This meant there were "condition rarities" in the ASE's which commanded much higher prices, while the others, below 70, seemed slightly suppressed. These were all NGC graded coins and honestly I'm surprised there was a 70 in the bunch for the ASE's.

AGE T1, 2nd to last coin struck (MS70) = $13,000 / AGE T1 last coin struck (MS70) = $77,500

AGE T2, 2nd coin struck (MS70) =$18,000 / AGE T2 first coin struck (MS70) = $100,000

ASE T1, 2nd to last coin struck (MS69) = $11,000 / ASE T1 last coin struck (MS70) = $85,000

ASE T2, 2nd coin struck (MS69) = $11,000 / ASE T2 first coin struck (MS70) = $80,000

These coins were very unimpressive to me and many riddled with milk spots, a modern affliction. While all were without wear they were not all on par to my way of thinking.

Thanks for checking that out Mike, You answered a lot of questions with your report on that sale.  

[RWB]

A very large quantity of bunk, stupidity and greed -- all for nothing really special.

[Mr.Bill347]

On 9/16/2022 at 9:42 AM, RWB said:

A very large quantity of bunk, stupidity and greed -- all for nothing really special.

Greed by the mint, by the TPG companies, dealers, I’m glad I withstood the 8 minutes of total chaos to get mine for a very reasonable price. Not liking the direction these specialty coins are moving.

[zadok]

On 9/16/2022 at 6:52 AM, Fenntucky Mike said:

I took a quick look this morning at the fist 80 lots from the auction, the last 20 T1 and first 20 T2 ASE & AGE coins, and whew there is a bunch of dogs in that group. The ASE's specifically. Long story short all of the AGE's, T1 & 2, graded MS70 the break down for the T1 ASE was 67=1, 68=4,69=13 and 70=2 (only 10% graded 70), the T2 ASE didn't fair much better with 69=18, 70=2 (again, only 10% graded 70). This meant there were "condition rarities" in the ASE's which commanded much higher prices, while the others, below 70, seemed slightly suppressed. These were all NGC graded coins and honestly I'm surprised there was a 70 in the bunch for the ASE's.

AGE T1, 2nd to last coin struck (MS70) = $13,000 / AGE T1 last coin struck (MS70) = $77,500

AGE T2, 2nd coin struck (MS70) =$18,000 / AGE T2 first coin struck (MS70) = $100,000

ASE T1, 2nd to last coin struck (MS69) = $11,000 / ASE T1 last coin struck (MS70) = $85,000

ASE T2, 2nd coin struck (MS69) = $11,000 / ASE T2 first coin struck (MS70) = $80,000

These coins were very unimpressive to me and many were riddled with milk spots, a modern affliction. While all were without wear they were not all on par to my way of thinking, and some of the differences between the ASE's looked pretty drastic. Could be all in the photos though. 

...wow, i thought the first n last were exorbitant, id hate to be into the 2nd place coins at those premiums even more, people barely can remember who won the super bowl or worlds series, let alone the losers...i just cant imagine those prices holding, guess find out if on the market in the future unless the tpgs or auction houses buy them back to maintain prices....

[MN1]

If I ever dropped that amount on a coin, that certainly would not be the one.  I sure hope it doesn't develop any milk spots.

[Conder101]

On 9/13/2022 at 5:24 PM, Mr.Bill347 said:

this coin sold out in 8 minutes and I got one!

  These are just bullion pieces.  They sold them to the distributors all year long and were never on the mint website.