First Silver Dollar 1 1

[Hoghead515]

I got one Ill sell for half price. If you can get it to break free from the magnet and maybe scrape a little rust off. Mines not a proof though.   . In all seriousness I thought this was very interesting. What a sweet dollar. Congrats to the buyer who gets to enjoy owning this beauty. I copied this off an email from Great Collections 

CoinsSilver Dollars24-Hour Deals$1,000+ Certified Coins$1-$100 Certifed Coins

America's First Silver Dollar Acquired for $12 Million by GreatCollections

World's Most Valuable Silver Coin and Second Highest Price Ever Paid for a Rare Coin

An exceedingly rare coin minted in 1794, widely believed to be the very first Silver Dollar struck by the United States, has sold for a world record $12 million to GreatCollections.

Only about 140 silver dollars exist today out of the original mintage of 1,758, and this is the only example designated Specimen by Professional Coin Grading Service (PCGS) who assigned a grade of SP-66. It is also approved by Certified Acceptance Corporation (CAC).

The famous coin was the first to break the $10 million mark, selling for $10,016,875 in a 2013 auction. Three years earlier, it had traded privately for $7.85 million. In both prior transactions, it set the record for the highest price paid for a coin, until the 1933 Saint-Gaudens Gold Double Eagle was auctioned last year for $18.9 million.

The seller of the 1794 Silver Dollar was well-known collector Bruce Morelan, who had previously sold a trio of rare coins for $13.35 million to GreatCollections in November last year that included the finest 1913 Liberty Head Nickel, one of only three in private hands.

Prior to Morelan, the coin was owned by numismatic legends including Virgil Brand, Col. E.H.R. Green, W.W. Neil and both Amon Carter, Senior and Junior.

Ian Russell, president of GreatCollections said, "Without question, this is America's most coveted Silver Dollar, and it gave me chills closing the transaction for this piece of history. This absolutely defines 'museum-quality' in fact, aside from the unique specimen-striking, it's substantially better than the examples in the Smithsonian and American Numismatic Association collections. The new owner is thrilled."

John Albanese, founder of Certified Acceptance Corporation (CAC), negotiated the transaction on behalf of Morelan last week.

Albanese said, "I'm very pleased to be involved in this deal, officially the highest price paid for any CAC-approved coin in a private transaction, and I know it's bittersweet for Bruce to pass the torch to the next owner."

The historic deal took just days to complete.

"I called Ian about the coin a week ago Sunday, and by Thursday, we were in agreement. Then it was just a matter of logistics to securely transport the rarity."

The coin market has gained new strength over the past few months, with a large number of new collectors entering the market from other collectibles and hobbies.

This was the second important 1794 Flowing Hair Silver Dollar purchased by GreatCollections in the past six months. At an ANA auction in August, GreatCollections paid $6.6 million for another example, ranking as the seventh highest price ever paid for a coin at auction

 

[Just Bob]

"The new owner is thrilled" sounds like GC bought it for a client. I am curious to see if the name will be released in the near future.

If I remember correctly the reserve for this coin was $7 million - or about $8 1/4 million with juice - when it failed to sell in 2020. $12 million is quite a hefty jump up from there. Congrats to Bruce and to the new owner.

[RWB]

Almost nothing claimed about the coin can be substantiated. This is about the only true statement, "An exceedingly rare coin minted in 1794."

Also, who is "Widely Believed" and where does he live? Does Widely have a web site? Is Widely related to "Narrowly Minded" the political activist and Covid ICU patient? (Narrowly's daily ICU cost averages about $9,000 ... until he has the breathing tube removed. Much of the cost picked up by us vaccinated taxpayers.)

Edited January 28, 2022 by RWB

[Alex in PA.]

Oh boy!  Out of my price range.

[gmarguli]

On 1/28/2022 at 10:54 AM, RWB said:

Also, who is "Widely Believed" and where does he live? Does Widely have a web site?

This is Mr. Widely Believed, pictured going out to get his mail as he does every morning. He does not have a website as websites are one of the easiest ways for aliens to track us. Everyone knows this is why the aliens gave us the internet, so they could track us more easily. 

Mr. Widely Believed predicts this coin will soon be on display at major shows in a new PCGS SP66+ CAC slab, as since the price increased the grade must also increase.

Edited January 29, 2022 by gmarguli

[RWB]

Wow! I had read on the internet that Widely was unphotographable -- but maybe that was just in a mirror.

[zadok]

...substantiated...often used as a crutch by narrowly minded persons who widely believe that for something to be true it has to be found in documented archives, which could have been written by broadly uninformed authors...in short just because its in a book doesnt make it so...hard physical evidence supersedes empirically biased printed words every time....eating a pastry much more satisfying than reading bout eating the same pastry....a wisely learned person once stated..."just cause it doesnt say it doesnt mean its not so"...

[numisport]

While other 1794's are known with a silver center, this one has something going on in the obverse center. What is that ?

[DWLange]

While other 1794's are known with a silver center, this one has something going on in the obverse center. What is that ?

It's a silver plug inserted at the mint prior to striking. This feature was first noticed by Skip Fazarri when the coin came into NGC many years ago and confirmed by me. It was then published in Coin World at the time. The coin later crossed to PCGS.

[Hoghead515]

On 1/30/2022 at 9:50 AM, DWLange said:

While other 1794's are known with a silver center, this one has something going on in the obverse center. What is that ?

It's a silver plug inserted at the mint prior to striking. This feature was first noticed by Skip Fazarri when the coin came into NGC many years ago and confirmed by me. It was then published in Coin World at the time. The coin later crossed to PCGS.

Very cool you got to see that coin in person. Wonder why the mint put a plug in it? Was it something they were expirimenting with or something?

Edited January 30, 2022 by Hoghead515

[numisport]

I've been getting used to using Coin Explorer lately and there you'll find the explanation of the silver center plug to adjust planchet weight.

Was this adjustment procedure used prior to physical adjustment with a file or other mechanical means or just a more hygienic way to produce an attractive first silver dollar ?

[GoldFinger1969]

On 1/30/2022 at 9:50 AM, DWLange said:

While other 1794's are known with a silver center, this one has something going on in the obverse center. What is that ?  It's a silver plug inserted at the mint prior to striking. This feature was first noticed by Skip Fazarri when the coin came into NGC many years ago and confirmed by me. It was then published in Coin World at the time. The coin later crossed to PCGS.

Do you believe this coin was the 1st one struck ?

[RWB]

On 1/30/2022 at 11:16 AM, numisport said:

I've been getting used to using Coin Explorer lately and there you'll find the explanation of the silver center plug to adjust planchet weight.

Was this adjustment procedure used prior to physical adjustment with a file or other mechanical means or just a more hygienic way to produce an attractive first silver dollar ?

The two primary suggestions are:

1) plugged to increase total planchet weight. This allowed a light planchet to be put to use and not melted and rolled all over again.

2) plugged to adjust the total silver content up or down, again to allow use of an otherwise defective planchet.

No evidence of this or any other 1794 dollar being the first one produced. If Rittenhouse and friends were trying to make something special, why use a patched planchet. Why select a planchet with adjustment marks? Maybe it looks so nice because the press slingers were feeling especially energetic, or put the beam weights out farther than usual, or.... ?

[DWLange]

Roger's explanation is as close to accurate as we'll get in the absence of period documentation. It may seem now that fixing an underweight planchet that way was more work than it was worth, but the early U. S. Mint was hard pressed to create as many planchets as needed with such crude equipment.

[Just Bob]

On 1/30/2022 at 1:40 PM, RWB said:

No evidence of this or any other 1794 dollar being the first one produced. If Rittenhouse and friends were trying to make something special, why use a patched planchet. Why select a planchet with adjustment marks?

This is why I take issue with the SP designation. Yes, the coin is very well struck, but if I am going to create a specimen, either for my own set or to give as a presentation piece, why choose a planchet that may not look good after striking? And, once the coin is struck, why not put it in circulation and try again to mint a better looking coin? If it can be proven to have been the first coin struck, then, fine, give it a grade, and designate it accordingly. But don't just assume it was struck as a specimen, or call it that, just because it looks different from the other known examples.

[RWB]

Agreed, Just Bob -- These special terms are meaningless in themselves, and are being tossed about with no justification. Label it s "specimen," then prove it was intended to be special by the makers.

[Just Bob]

On 1/30/2022 at 8:50 AM, DWLange said:

While other 1794's are known with a silver center, this one has something going on in the obverse center. What is that ?

It's a silver plug inserted at the mint prior to striking. This feature was first noticed by Skip Fazarri when the coin came into NGC many years ago and confirmed by me. It was then published in Coin World at the time. The coin later crossed to PCGS.

This coin has an impressive provenance. Do you remember who submitted it to NGC originally, and do you recall the grade?

[DWLange]

Do you remember who submitted it to NGC originally, and do you recall the grade?

The article is tucked into my Bowers-Borchardt book, which I'll have access to tomorrow.

[RWB]

This is part of the corporate "us or them" approach that I feel is detrimental.

NGC authenticates it, then PCGS authenticates it - but they do not create a comprehensive authentication analysis of the coin. All that we get in the "free world" are speculations and fluff articles. If this coin is so "special" then it merits a full examination by ALL THE BEST in the business, not just "us or them."

[DWLange]

Do you remember who submitted it to NGC originally, and do you recall the grade?

I don't know the submitter and couldn't report it if I did.

The coin was written up in the April 14, 2003 issue of Coin World as the first 1794 dollar reported with a mint-made silver plug, crediting the discovery to Skip Fazarri and me. NGC graded it MS-66.

The CW article reported that there already was speculation of it being the first federal silver dollar coined, but no source was given for that claim, and no one quoted in the article repeated it. I believe that determination was made only after it crossed to PCGS.

[MarkFeld]

On 2/1/2022 at 1:29 PM, DWLange said:

Do you remember who submitted it to NGC originally, and do you recall the grade?

I don't know the submitter and couldn't report it if I did.

The coin was written up in the April 14, 2003 issue of Coin World as the first 1794 dollar reported with a mint-made silver plug, crediting the discovery to Skip Fazarri and me. NGC graded it MS-66.

The CW article reported that there already was speculation of it being the first federal silver dollar coined, but no source was given for that claim, and no one quoted in the article repeated it. I believe that determination was made only after it crossed to PCGS.

I don’t have the Amon Carter catalog to be able to confirm, but I believe that in their description of the coin, Stack’s wrote “It is perfectly conceivable that this coin was the very first Silver Dollar struck!”.

[gmarguli]

On 2/1/2022 at 2:08 PM, MarkFeld said:

I don’t have the Amon Carter catalog to be able to confirm, but I believe that in their description of the coin, Stack’s wrote “It is perfectly conceivable that this coin was the very first Silver Dollar struck!”.

That is absolutely true. There is a 1 in 1758 chance that this is correct. 

Should this coin cross the desks of Heritage and you need added fluff for the auction description, you may quote me on this: It is perfectly conceivable that this coin was the 1134th Silver Dollar struck!

[MarkFeld]

On 2/1/2022 at 7:01 PM, gmarguli said:

That is absolutely true. There is a 1 in 1758 chance that this is correct. 

Should this coin cross the desks of Heritage and you need added fluff for the auction description, you may quote me on this: It is perfectly conceivable that this coin was the 1134th Silver Dollar struck!

I’m not convinced or claiming that the coin was the first example struck. But based on its die state, your dismissal of its chances of being so, is way off base. 

Edited February 2, 2022 by MarkFeld

[DWLange]

I checked the Newman Numismatic Portal, which has the 1984 catalog of the Carter Collection, and the quote Mark reported indeed is found there.

[RWB]

Note: It is also perfectly conceivable that is the was the very last 1794 silver dollar struck.

[gmarguli]

On 2/1/2022 at 6:39 PM, MarkFeld said:

I’m not convinced or claiming that the coin was the first example struck. But based on its die state, your dismissal of its chances of being so, is way off base. 

1134th was meant to show the absurdity of guessing which number struck it was. This 1st coin struck garbage is nothing more than "if you repeat something enough it becomes true".

Let's just be honest about the coin. It is a very early strike, but impossible to know which number off the dies it was. It's just as conceivable that it was the 50th coin off the dies as the 1st. With only ~7% of the original mintage surviving and most worn/adjusted/damaged, it's impossible to know how quickly the die deteriorated. 

[MarkFeld]

On 2/2/2022 at 11:17 AM, RWB said:

Note: It is also perfectly conceivable that is the was the very last 1794 silver dollar struck.

How so? Are you disputing the observation that the coin is the same die state as the 1794 copper pattern and that the latter would have likely been struck prior to the silver circulation strikes?

Thank you, but I'll take the extensive research of Martin Logies and his book on 1794 dollars, over your comment.

Edited February 2, 2022 by MarkFeld

[gmarguli]

On 2/2/2022 at 10:21 AM, MarkFeld said:

Are you disputing the observation that the coin is the same die state as the 1794 copper pattern and that the latter would have likely been struck prior to the silver circulation strikes?

This copper example you refer to would not be a pattern, but rather a Die Trial if struck first or Off Metal Strike if struck later in the production run. 

[MarkFeld]

On 2/2/2022 at 4:43 PM, gmarguli said:

This copper example you refer to would not be a pattern, but rather a Die Trial if struck first or Off Metal Strike if struck later in the production run. 

Call it a Die Trial if you prefer.

[RWB]

On 2/2/2022 at 1:21 PM, MarkFeld said:

How so? Are you disputing the observation that the coin is the same die state as the 1794 copper pattern and that the latter would have likely been struck prior to the silver circulation strikes?

Thank you, but I'll take the extensive research of Martin Logies and his book on 1794 dollars, over your comment.

No need to be snippity.....So much of the stuff about that coin is bologna that I am very skeptical. I'm not disputing facts - including that the copper piece and patched up silver piece are of the same die state. That alone, and that is about all there is, establishes very little. I would like to see this and other "special" pieces examined in the open by multiple experts from the TPGS and elsewhere.

How about simply cutting out the hype and lies, and merely prepare a factual, clear scientific examination and analysis of data, not financially suspect opinions. That will benefit everyone.