What grade would you say this coin is? 0

[Jblindy]

This is a PCGS graded CAC certified Morgan. I’m curious what grade the general consensus will be. 
 

[gmarguli]

MS64. Luster looks muted.

[Jblindy]

On 10/26/2021 at 1:44 PM, gmarguli said:

MS64. Luster looks muted.

Thanks. I thought maybe a 64 as well.  I’ll reveal what the true grade is once a few more members weigh in with their opinion. Im just curious. 

[GBrad]

@Jblindy Not a grading expert (or even a novice as of yet) but I enjoy guessing the grades on coins.  It helps me learn more and store more knowledge in my feeble mind. Now, my guess..... Being that it has a green been sticker, and I have come under the impression that only higher end coins are usually submitted to CAC, I am going to go out on a limb and say MS66...... I'm sure I am probably way off base here but from my perspective, the toning limits the luster (especially the obverse), but the fields, and especially her face, appear to be very nice with minimal scratches and bag marks that are so prevalent with Morgans. This appears to be a common date and mm but yet with a relatively low mintage compared to other dates so I'm thinking all of this may add up to a higher grade.......  Interested to see how wrong I am here.......

Edited October 26, 2021 by GBrad
added @ name of OP

[Jblindy]

@GBrad I enjoy playing the guessing game as well. 

[Mr.Bill347]

Hell the guys here wouldn’t give me an MS anything for mine. 

[124Spider]

Not an expert, but always happy to guess on the 1884-CC.

I only have a few certified mint state Morgan dollars, all 63-64+ (and one of which is an 1884-CC); ignoring the total lack of luster, I find the reverse of this coin to be better than any of my graded MS Morgans, but I find the obverse to be not particularly well struck (worse than all of my graded MS Morgans), and the "toning" isn't particularly attractive (to me, but I'm not a fan of toning generally).

I suspect that the mint-state grades are assigned at least as much from the guess of the grader as to the commercial attractiveness of the coin as anything else. 

I'd guess MS63 (understanding that the 1884-CC is not a very, very expensive coin, and someone though it was worth running it through CAC, which might dictate in favor of a higher grade).

Mark

Edited October 26, 2021 by 124Spider

[124Spider]

On 10/26/2021 at 12:58 PM, Mr.Bill347 said:

Hell the guys here wouldn’t give me an MS anything for mine. 

I wouldn't either.  :)

[Jblindy]

On 10/26/2021 at 3:58 PM, Mr.Bill347 said:

Hell the guys here wouldn’t give me an MS anything for mine. 

I don’t know, that’s a hard one where it takes a more experienced eye than mine to distinguish between an AU 58 and an MS 60 or 61. When I first saw it, I thought it was a low grade MS coin, until everybody else started in on it. I still think, again with my very inexperienced eye, that it’s low MS. The ‘21S Morgan’s were generally softly struck on Liberty’s hair as well as on the reverse. “A fully struck piece with good luster is very rare.” This is taken directly from the Red Book Guide Book of Morgan Silver Dollars, which is a very good and informative read, I might add. I’m about half way through my second reading, going a bit slower this time to digest all the info presented.

I might add that in my nightly searches through the various auction websites, I have seen a handful of CAC verified MS 62’s and 63’s. 

I’m still waiting for some of the more experienced to venture a guess. 

[J P M]

The 1884 CC is very nice the toning makes it hard to see scratches or bag marks but the reverse is really clean I will give it a MS64

[Coinbuf]

More color than usual for a CC.   The strike is strong but just short of full, note the cheek is not round and full but the cotton bolls are well defined.    Some of the usual "CC" bag marks but they are well hidden by the tone, at least in this photo angle anyway.   These photos are not ideal to guess the grade, the lighting makes it difficult to really discern the amount of luster.  But knowing that PCGS loves luster and color in the grading room my guess is PCGS gave it a color bump and said MS65.   I would be with Greg at MS64 if I were grading it.

[Jblindy]

On 10/26/2021 at 6:07 PM, Coinbuf said:

More color than usual for a CC.   The strike is strong but just short of full, note the cheek is not round and full but the cotton bolls are well defined.    Some of the usual "CC" bag marks but they are well hidden by the tone, at least in this photo angle anyway.   These photos are not ideal to guess the grade, the lighting makes it difficult to really discern the amount of luster.  But knowing that PCGS loves luster and color in the grading room my guess is PCGS gave it a color bump and said MS65.   I would be with Greg at MS64 if I were grading it.

The the screenshot of the auction photo was much higher resolution which allowed a more clear zoom. Unfortunately the screenshot is not the same resolution. 
 

The spots you see on the high cheekbone and lower jawbone are definite dings as well as the right field behind Liberty’s head.  

 

Edited October 26, 2021 by Jblindy

[Just Bob]

MS63

[Mohawk]

I'm with Bob.  MS63.

[Jblindy]

It seems the general consensus is MS 63/64.  As I examined the coin, I was confused because I thought it was an easy 64 possible low 65, which is why I posed the question to see what the opinion of everybody else was. Only one person was correct. @GBrad  congrats. The coin is an MS66. 
 

 

[GBrad]

On 10/26/2021 at 9:06 PM, Jblindy said:

It seems the general consensus is MS 63/64.  As I examined the coin, I was confused because I thought it was an easy 64 possible low 65, which is why I posed the question to see what the opinion of everybody else was. Only one person was correct. @GBrad  congrats. The coin is an MS66. 
 

 

After reading the much more experienced member's posts here (which I DO NOT fall into that category by any stretch of the imagination regarding Morgans), I am almost embarrassed at my evaluation and guess of the coins's grade. Going from 63/64 to 66 is a huge step as I have learned from the input, and my learning, from such knowledgable numismatists here.  As mentioned in numerous threads in the past, the TPG grading process is very subjective and the toning may have bumped it up a grade or two, who knows.  One question: Does this mean that I won this coin??? You can ship it straight to my house. My Address is: 90210 Somewhere.......  I finally got something correct for once in my life. I'm sorry to my forum friends here if I ruffled any feathers, I just got lucky.  

[Coinbuf]

On 10/26/2021 at 8:10 PM, GBrad said:

After reading the much more experienced member's posts here (which I DO NOT fall into that category by any stretch of the imagination regarding Morgans), I am almost embarrassed at my evaluation and guess of the coins's grade. Going from 63/64 to 66 is a huge step as I have learned from the input, and my learning, from such knowledgable numismatists here.  As mentioned in numerous threads in the past, the TPG grading process is very subjective and the toning may have bumped it up a grade or two, who knows.  One question: Does this mean that I won this coin??? You can ship it straight to my house. My Address is: 90210 Somewhere.......  I finally got something correct for once in my life. I'm sorry to my forum friends here if I ruffled any feathers, I just got lucky.  

Never be sorry for being right      In all honesty if the op had shown the full slab pic with the grade blocked out I think the guesses would have been higher.   The slab photo shows the luster where the op photos made the coin look dull, this exercise points out just how difficult it is to grade from photos.   The same coin with different lighting or angles or even just the photo resolution can give very different looks and results.

I still feel that the coin has too many distractions to warrant a 66 grade, but its a fairly clean CC and color very often gets a grade bump in todays market grading world.

Edited October 27, 2021 by Coinbuf

[J P M]

I had a feeling it was going to be very high grade even though it has hidden damage. but I graded it as I saw it without the bonus factors. It also looks like it is from a private collection which would make a better chance to sway for a higher grade. If I sent it in it would have been a 63. Like Coinbuf said GBrad don't be sad It was a cr@p shoot and you won the coin.

Edited October 27, 2021 by J P Mashoke

[RWB]

On 10/26/2021 at 5:37 PM, Jblindy said:

I don’t know, that’s a hard one where it takes a more experienced eye than mine to distinguish between an AU 58 and an MS 60 or 61. When I first saw it, I thought it was a low grade MS coin, until everybody else started in on it. I still think, again with my very inexperienced eye, that it’s low MS. The ‘21S Morgan’s were generally softly struck on Liberty’s hair as well as on the reverse. “A fully struck piece with good luster is very rare.” This is taken directly from the Red Book Guide Book of Morgan Silver Dollars, which is a very good and informative read, I might add. I’m about half way through my second reading, going a bit slower this time to digest all the info presented.

I might add that in my nightly searches through the various auction websites, I have seen a handful of CAC verified MS 62’s and 63’s. 

I’m still waiting for some of the more experienced to venture a guess. 

Compare the reverse field luster on the coin you posted, with that on the 1921-S. Note the "halo" of original luster near relief on the 1921, and then look at the same areas on your graded coin. Additionally, notice the abrasion and damage especially on Liberty's cheek on the 1921, and compare it to the appearance of the same area on your coin.

[Jblindy]

@RWB

i will definitely compare the two when I get home and am able to access the site on a larger screen and able to have the photos side by side rather than trying to compare on my phone. These government computers are on lock down. Lol. 
Your help and patience with my questions has been very much appreciated. 

[RWB]

Honest questions are always welcome, although you should expect some differences in the answers. I tend to be conservative and strict in grading and attributing coins. Others here disagree and they have their reasons for doing so. Mark is the most notable and we have had some lengthy disagreements on numismatic subjects. But, I feel we each also maintain respect for those opinions even if they are not shared all the time.