1890 Morgan 0

[Mikhail2400]

Ok heres another one of my Morgan coins for yall to consider. As always be honest and grade thee coin on its merits.

Thanks, Mike

[Woods020]

I would say AU53

[GBrad]

On 10/3/2021 at 9:23 AM, Woods020 said:

I would say AU53

Hey.... I'm learning here @Woods020!  I looked at the op's pics, before I looked at any replies (yours) and thought to myself somewhere around AU55..... I guess an old dog can still learn some new tricks...lol.    The obverse and reverse rims are what first got my attention.  Looks like they have definitely seen a little circulation wear if I'm seeing this correctly due to their shiny appearance. The cheek looks good but the hair lines and one of the cotton boughs looks slightly smoothed (granted it's not a weak strike on those areas).  

[Mohawk]

I'm with Woods....AU53. 

Edited October 3, 2021 by Mohawk

[Woods020]

On 10/3/2021 at 12:46 PM, GBrad said:

Hey.... I'm learning here @Woods020!  I looked at the op's pics, before I looked at any replies (yours) and thought to myself somewhere around AU55..... I guess an old dog can still learn some new tricks...lol.    The obverse and reverse rims are what first got my attention.  Looks like they have definitely seen a little circulation wear if I'm seeing this correctly due to their shiny appearance. The cheek looks good but the hair lines and one of the cotton boughs looks slightly smoothed (granted it's not a weak strike on those areas).  

Noticeable wear on obverse hair and reverse eagle breast. 

[GBrad]

@Woods020  @Mohawk Hey…. At least I’m learning what to look for, I’ve definitely had some good mentors here on the forum! This time last year I may very well have said MS….. but, then again, I wouldn’t have even posted back then about a potential grade because I was still D.U.M.B. and trying to learn what to look for. I’ve come quite a way this past year in the grading category and I thank everyone from whom I’ve learned. 👍

[Woods020]

On 10/3/2021 at 1:52 PM, GBrad said:

@Woods020  @Mohawk Hey…. At least I’m learning what to look for, I’ve definitely had some good mentors here on the forum! This time last year I may very well have said MS….. but, then again, I wouldn’t have even posted back then about a potential grade because I was still D.U.M.B. and trying to learn what to look for. I’ve come quite a way this past year in the grading category and I thank everyone from whom I’ve learned. 👍

I’m still DUMB too. Not sure we ever really get past dumb, it’s just varying degrees of dumb 😂

[Mikhail2400]

On 10/3/2021 at 4:28 PM, Woods020 said:

I’m still DUMB too. Not sure we ever really get past dumb, it’s just varying degrees of dumb 😂

Hey speak for yourself! My own personal grade is Almost Smart 52.

Thanks for the help in figuring out this coins possible ranking. I didnt figure it would rate very high with the eagles chest showing so much wear and the worn spots on the obverse.

You know theres only one part of the Morgans design I dont like and it stands out and bugs me every time. Its that blob of a hat on the back of her head like an afterthought. It stands out from everything else with its lack of detail and its one of the first places to wear from what ive seen.

[GBrad]

On 10/3/2021 at 3:28 PM, Woods020 said:

I’m still DUMB too. Not sure we ever really get past dumb, it’s just varying degrees of dumb 😂

I totally agree with your statement, and I am so badly attempting to overcome the learning curve. The meaning of my D.U.M.B.= Dramatically Understanding My Brainlessness……. (Oh my….. I’m starting to sound like @Quintus Arrius)!!!!! Lawd, help me!!!

[GBrad]

On 10/3/2021 at 3:53 PM, Mikhail2400 said:

Its that blob of a hat on the back of her head like an afterthought. It stands out from everything else with its lack of detail and its one of the first places to wear from what ive seen.

I believe that is the bonnet. Didn’t look it up to be absolutely sure of what it is technically called but it was a very useful piece of head attire during the time frame of Morgan’s which were worn by ladies. It was donned to ward off hair entanglement. Am I correct on this one @Woods020?  I’m going back fishing now for more crappie and catfish. I’ll check back later…..

Edited October 3, 2021 by GBrad

[RWB]

High EF. Too much wear for AU-58.

[Woods020]

On 10/3/2021 at 4:04 PM, GBrad said:

I believe that is the bonnet. Didn’t look it up to be absolutely sure of what it is technically called but it was a very useful piece of head attire during the time frame of Morgan’s which were worn by ladies. It was donned to ward off hair entanglement. Am I correct on this one @Woods020?  I’m going back fishing now for more crappie and catfish. I’ll check back later…..

It’s a Phrygian or Liberty Cap. The cap itself dates back to the Roman Empire and is a symbol of freedom or liberty. The US adopted it as a symbol of liberty after the American revolution. Several other countries associate the Phrygian Cap with liberty and use it on coins. France being one I can think of, but I’m no expert on anything really and least of which is foreign coins. 
 

I still like this coin at AU 53 by the way 😁

Edited October 3, 2021 by Woods020

[GBrad]

On 10/3/2021 at 6:55 PM, Woods020 said:

It’s a Phrygian or Liberty Cap. The cap itself dates back to the Roman Empire and is a symbol of freedom or liberty. The US adopted it as a symbol of liberty after the American revolution. Several other countries associate the Phrygian Cap with liberty and use it on coins. France being one I can think of, but I’m no expert on anything really and least of which is foreign coins. 
 

I still like this coin at AU 53 by the way 😁

I’ll go with that. Nice explanation!

[RWB]

On 10/3/2021 at 7:55 PM, Woods020 said:

It’s a Phrygian or Liberty Cap. The cap itself dates back to the Roman Empire and is a symbol of freedom or liberty. The US adopted it as a symbol of liberty after the American revolution. Several other countries associate the Phrygian Cap with liberty and use it on coins. France being one I can think of, but I’m no expert on anything really and least of which is foreign coins. 

The difficulty with using a Phrygian Cap as a symbol of freedom or liberty is that it was associated with manumission of slaves.  As director Snowden commented in 1853:

"The Pileus or liberty cap placed by the Romans upon the head of a slave in token of his manumission has been very much used and is perhaps a worn out idea. The Greek emblem of Liberty was a horse or head of a horse without a bridle. It may well be considered whether there is any necessity for our going back so far or seeking an emblem of doubtful expressiveness. We should endeavor to adopt such designs as would be expressive of our own institutions, and peculiar to our country."

In 1824 director Moore asked Thomas Jefferson about the Pileus and commented that our liberty was not that of freed slaves, but of free people exercising their natural right of independence.

[numisport]

I see a weakly struck AU 55. Note that the New Orleans 1890 Dollar is one of the most poorly struck coins in the whole Morgan series.

[Woods020]

On 10/4/2021 at 10:09 AM, RWB said:

The difficulty with using a Phrygian Cap as a symbol of freedom or liberty is that it was associated with manumission of slaves.  As director Snowden commented in 1853:

"The Pileus or liberty cap placed by the Romans upon the head of a slave in token of his manumission has been very much used and is perhaps a worn out idea. The Greek emblem of Liberty was a horse or head of a horse without a bridle. It may well be considered whether there is any necessity for our going back so far or seeking an emblem of doubtful expressiveness. We should endeavor to adopt such designs as would be expressive of our own institutions, and peculiar to our country."

In 1824 director Moore asked Thomas Jefferson about the Pileus and commented that our liberty was not that of freed slaves, but of free people exercising their natural right of independence.

I believe that is why it was adopted after the American revolution is to signify our “manumission” from England. But I do agree I think there were better options. I don’t know that me majority of the US did/do have a clue about the symbology. The only reason I know is I was curious way back when and read about it. Lots of interesting symbology on our older Coinage. I think it’s a sad day to look at where our coin designs are now. 

[Mohawk]

On 10/4/2021 at 11:09 AM, RWB said:

The difficulty with using a Phrygian Cap as a symbol of freedom or liberty is that it was associated with manumission of slaves.  As director Snowden commented in 1853:

"The Pileus or liberty cap placed by the Romans upon the head of a slave in token of his manumission has been very much used and is perhaps a worn out idea. The Greek emblem of Liberty was a horse or head of a horse without a bridle. It may well be considered whether there is any necessity for our going back so far or seeking an emblem of doubtful expressiveness. We should endeavor to adopt such designs as would be expressive of our own institutions, and peculiar to our country."

In 1824 director Moore asked Thomas Jefferson about the Pileus and commented that our liberty was not that of freed slaves, but of free people exercising their natural right of independence.

Yeah.....given American society of the day, the Pileus was a very questionable choice, to say the least.  

[Woods020]

On 10/4/2021 at 8:11 PM, Mohawk said:

Yeah.....given American society of the day, the Pileus was a very questionable choice, to say the least.  

The phyrgian cap is actually different from the pileus. It got confused when the pileus and adopted the same symbolism, but is actually a different hat. You probably knew that but just clarifying. 

[Mohawk]

On 10/4/2021 at 9:57 PM, Woods020 said:

The phyrgian cap is actually different from the pileus. It got confused when the pileus and adopted the same symbolism, but is actually a different hat. You probably knew that but just clarifying. 

Actually, I did, now that you mention it.  But I haven't thought of it in years!!  I'm having one of those stupid days   The phyrgian cap would be more correct in the American symbolism sense, you're absolutely correct.

Edited October 5, 2021 by Mohawk

[Mikhail2400]

 

On 10/3/2021 at 7:55 PM, Woods020 said:

It’s a Phrygian or Liberty Cap. The cap itself dates back to the Roman Empire and is a symbol of freedom or liberty. The US adopted it as a symbol of liberty after the American revolution. Several other countries associate the Phrygian Cap with liberty and use it on coins. France being one I can think of

Its amazing how much background knowledge you folks have. It shouldnt surprise me, I mean its a coin forum after all but its still amazing. 

[Woods020]

On 10/4/2021 at 9:45 PM, Mikhail2400 said:

 

Its amazing how much background knowledge you folks have. It shouldnt surprise me, I mean its a coin forum after all but its still amazing. 

There is no secret sauce. It’s a lot of reading. About two years ago I decided I wanted to get serious about numismatics. Many members here gave me some reality checks and told me to study. I took it to heart and have read everything I can get my hands on for the two years since. And I know a fraction of what most of the members know mainly due to my short time collecting. All that to say read, read and then read some more. Treat this hobby like college and it comes fairly quickly.