1993 cent double?? 0

[JAnsley]

No sure really if the double ear lobe is even really a variety. But if so then is this an example of one? If looked pcgs&ngc&V.VISTA but have found no info for the '93 on ear lobe doubling.

[J P M]

It is most likely a bag mark a hit from something, The ear on a penny is a high spot and takes a beating most of the time. Gbrad and Coinbuff are big into Pennies maybe they will take a look here and give a shout.

[JAnsley]

On 9/5/2021 at 6:19 AM, J P Mashoke said:

It is most likely a bag mark a hit from something, The ear on a penny is a high spot and takes a beating most of the time. Gbrad and Coinbuff are big into Pennies maybe they will take a look here and give a shout.

Thanks JP. Im mostly big on pennies myself just still consider myself a newbie even after several years. Cause i dont have books and not sure i could tell you difference between MD or DD if looking at both at different times now side by side i probably could. But never had a DD that i know of and ive roll hunted hundreds of rolls so i may just not know what im looking for. Just trying learn before retiring age if i ever make it that far

[JAnsley]

@J P Mashoke Hey brother just noticed this but what is the idk looks to be second bow tie to the north slightly east in my first photo or im i seeing things?

[GBrad]

Thanks @J P Mashoke for the plug about @Coinbuf and I. Coinbuf is way ahead in the ballgame than I, but I hope one day to be up there with his intellect as well as other professionals here on the forum. @JAnsley, your  Cent had definitely taken a hit to the earlobe, no questions about it. Like JP said, this is a very prominent area on Linc’s and are prone to taking hits from other coins in this exact spot which does sometimes resemble a partially doubled earlobe. One way to tell if you have doubled ear (which yours is not) is to look at the entire design element of the bottom of the ear, in this case the lobe. All Lincoln ears have a curvature at the bottom of the lobe where it turns back up and into the neck and onto the profile of the head. You can see on your coin what I am talking about. This is part of the intended design. Unless there is an additional small earlobe under the originally intended earlobe, as I described above, then you basically have a case of just simple PMD. Hope this helps. 

On 9/5/2021 at 6:57 AM, JAnsley said:

No sure really if the double ear lobe is even really a variety. But if so then is this an example of one? If looked pcgs&ngc&V.VISTA but have found no info for the '93 on ear lobe doubling.

 

[GBrad]

On 9/5/2021 at 11:10 AM, JAnsley said:

@J P Mashoke Hey brother just noticed this but what is the idk looks to be second bow tie to the north slightly east in my first photo or im i seeing things?

You are not seeing anything abnormal. The bow tie is normal. Looks a bit shiny probably from circulation wear which may appear odd to you. If you are taking about the small “line” directly above the bow tie, it may be a slight form of MD or most likely a lighting issue. To my knowledge, there has never been a Linc doubled die that solely included just the bow tie. However, with that said, certain known doubled dies do exhibit slight doubling of the bow tie but it is always in conjunction with several other hub doubled devices on the coin. 

Edited September 5, 2021 by GBrad

[Mohawk]

Hi JAnsley!

I took a look at your pics and I don't see any doubling or anything.  The ear has some post minting damage and the bow tie looks normal to me.  I think you just have a normal 1993-D Lincoln Cent

[JAnsley]

On 9/5/2021 at 11:32 AM, GBrad said:

Thanks @J P Mashoke for the plug about @Coinbuf and I. Coinbuf is way ahead in the ballgame than I, but I hope one day to be up there with his intellect as well as other professionals here on the forum. @JAnsley, your  Cent had definitely taken a hit to the earlobe, no questions about it. Like JP said, this is a very prominent area on Linc’s and are prone to taking hits from other coins in this exact spot which does sometimes resemble a partially doubled earlobe. One way to tell if you have doubled ear (which yours is not) is to look at the entire design element of the bottom of the ear, in this case the lobe. All Lincoln ears have a curvature at the bottom of the lobe where it turns back up and into the neck and onto the profile of the head. You can see on your coin what I am talking about. This is part of the intended design. Unless there is an additional small earlobe under the originally intended earlobe, as I described above, then you basically have a case of just simple PMD. Hope this helps. 

 

Now this not coin i ask about just '58d i happen to be looking at. But on it ive drawn a line.this is the curve your sayng is intentionally designed. Or have i got you misunderstood? So i know what to look for. I was hopein id found something this time. Maybe some day ill find something worth talkin about till then just trying learn. What how and were to look to get it right. And thank you for you response

[Woods020]

They are saying what you think is doubling on the ear is just displaced metal from a hit after it was struck. It’s post mint damage. Another coin or some item hit the cent in that area and caused some metal to be displaced. That displaced metal is what you are thinking is doubling. 

 

I may have told you this before, but checking variety vista will be a good resource if you are looking for varieties. 

Edited September 5, 2021 by Woods020

[GBrad]

On 9/5/2021 at 2:25 PM, JAnsley said:

Now this not coin i ask about just '58d i happen to be looking at. But on it ive drawn a line.this is the curve your sayng is intentionally designed. Or have i got you misunderstood? So i know what to look for. I was hopein id found something this time. Maybe some day ill find something worth talkin about till then just trying learn. What how and were to look to get it right. And thank you for you response

Looks like that ear took a hit from something also.  I am not at home but when I get there I will try to send some links for you to use as references so that you will have a better understanding of true doubled dies vs. worthless doubling.  

[GBrad]

@JAnsley here is a starting point for understanding what worthless doubling is compared to true doubling.  There isn't anything related to doubled ears though.

file:///Users/ga/Desktop/Other%20Forms%20Of%20Doubling.webarchive

Another good website is coppercoins.com  There are a few year Lincoln Cents that have doubled ears.  The best know is the 1984 Philly Lincoln Cent.  Plug that into the search engine on this website and it will give you a better understanding of ear doubling.  

Edited September 5, 2021 by GBrad

[Woods020]

As a bit of a ramble, but maybe it will help, is that the microscope in the beginning will cause more harm than good. When you look at any coin under a lot of magnification you start to see a lot of things. Any surface under enough magnification can look like an interesting foreign planet. And microscopes have their place. I have one and use it often because my eyes stink. 
 

With that said in the beginning stick to a 10x loupe or less. If it’s important you will be able to see plenty of it with that. With the higher magnification until you really know what you are looking for and at you will drive yourself mad. You’ll learn much more under lower magnification, and then you will know when higher is needed as well as what you are looking at when you use it. To put it bluntly the microscope is causing you more issues than any learning. 

Edited September 5, 2021 by Woods020

[Coinbuf]

@GBrad @Woods020 and others are on point, as usual, the 1993 in your op looks to be just a normal coin with a touch of strike doubling and a well placed nick on the ear.   The second coin you posted, the 58-D, may have a bit of strike doubling also, would need to see the whole coin to say.  It is never a good idea to focus in on one single tiny area without seeing the whole coin, the forest for the trees type of analogy.

 

Something to keep in mind when you are looking at coins, you need to understand the minting process used at the time each coin was minted.   The first coin you posted was made using the single squeeze method, this tends to produce doubling close to the center of the coin like the earlobe.   Conversely the 58-D was minted when the mint used the double squeeze method, which led to the doubling being more often on the outer portion of the coin like is seen with the 55/55 or 72/72.   So when looking at older coins it is less likely to see much if any hub doubling seen towards the center of the coin vs toward the rim; and just the opposite for newer coins.    Certainly this is not foolproof but a good general rule of thumb to keep in mind. 

[JAnsley]

On 9/5/2021 at 1:30 PM, Woods020 said:

They are saying what you think is doubling on the ear is just displaced metal from a hit after it was struck. It’s post mint damage. Another coin or some item hit the cent in that area and caused some metal to be displaced. That displaced metal is what you are thinking is doubling. 

 

I may have told you this before, but checking variety vista will be a good resource if you are looking for varieties. 

I know that woods i wasnt arguing that. I agree completely about that. I was only trying to get clarity on how the curvature of the lobe is designed as gbrad was explaining it i just wasnt sure if i understood him correctly. 

I had checked variety vista and didnt find any thing on a double lobe for 93 thats why posted here to get opinions about what was seeing.

Edited September 5, 2021 by JAnsley

[JAnsley]

On 9/5/2021 at 1:33 PM, GBrad said:

@JAnsley here is a starting point for understanding what worthless doubling is compared to true doubling.  There isn't anything related to doubled ears though.

file:///Users/ga/Desktop/Other%20Forms%20Of%20Doubling.webarchive

Another good website is coppercoins.com  There are a few year Lincoln Cents that have doubled ears.  The best know is the 1984 Philly Lincoln Cent.  Plug that into the search engine on this website and it will give you a better understanding of ear doubling.  

Ive seen the '84 it cant be missed. But if i recall there is one from '70s thats not really that obvious. Kinda resembles the first photo i posted. And thanks for the link ill check it out here shortly.

[JAnsley]

On 9/5/2021 at 3:34 PM, Coinbuf said:

@GBrad @Woods020 and others are on point, as usual, the 1993 in your op looks to be just a normal coin with a touch of strike doubling and a well placed nick on the ear.   The second coin you posted, the 58-D, may have a bit of strike doubling also, would need to see the whole coin to say.  It is never a good idea to focus in on one single tiny area without seeing the whole coin, the forest for the trees type of analogy.

 

Something to keep in mind when you are looking at coins, you need to understand the minting process used at the time each coin was minted.   The first coin you posted was made using the single squeeze method, this tends to produce doubling close to the center of the coin like the earlobe.   Conversely the 58-D was minted when the mint used the double squeeze method, which led to the doubling being more often on the outer portion of the coin like is seen with the 55/55 or 72/72.   So when looking at older coins it is less likely to see much if any hub doubling seen towards the center of the coin vs toward the rim; and just the opposite for newer coins.    Certainly this is not foolproof but a good general rule of thumb to keep in mind. 

Yes sir the only reason for the 58d is because it was under the scope at the time only used it to draw a line around curvature of tbe lube to make sure i was understanding gbrad correctly. Sorry for the confusion it caused both you and woods. I do know about the different different mint possesses but did not know it affected where doubling occurs. Thank you for that info. that does help alot. And i didnt realise they use single squeeze method in early 90 i for some reason though that started in late ' '90 but now i know i was misinformed. So again thank you 

[Coinbuf]

On 9/5/2021 at 2:14 PM, JAnsley said:

Yes sir the only reason for the 58d is because it was under the scope at the time only used it to draw a line around curvature of tbe lube to make sure i was understanding gbrad correctly. Sorry for the confusion it caused both you and woods. I do know about the different different mint possesses but did not know it affected where doubling occurs. Thank you for that info. that does help alot. And i didnt realise they use single squeeze method in early 90 i for some reason though that started in late ' '90 but now i know i was misinformed. So again thank you 

Just to clarify, the year 1997 is the first year that all the dies and hubs for the cent, the nickel and the dime, from both mints, were made using that method. It was not until 1999 that all denominations were made from dies that were produced by the single squeeze hubbing system.   However there is evidence that the single squeeze method was used as early as the mid 1980's for some coins.   So I will correct myself in that I cannot say for certain that a coin from 1993 was 100% for sure a result of the single squeeze method, but I think it is very likely for the high mintage coins like cents. 

Edited September 5, 2021 by Coinbuf

[JAnsley]

On 9/5/2021 at 4:28 PM, Coinbuf said:

Just to clarify, the year 1997 is the first year that all the dies and hubs for the cent, the nickel and the dime, from both mints, were made using that method. It was not until 1999 that all denominations were made from dies that were produced by the single squeeze hubbing system.   However there is evidence that the single squeeze method was used as early as the mid 1980's for some coins.   So I will correct myself in that I cannot say for certain that a coin from 1993 was 100% for sure a result of the single squeeze method, but I think it is very likely for the high mintage coins like cents. 

O ok i figured there had to be a "trial" run or two using single squeeze method before fully incorporating it so im sure your correct there is sure to have been cents minted using it in earlier years