CAC service ? 0

[LDH Coins & Memorabilia]

Hello all, I have been looking at Great Collections for selling and buying, and I was wondering exactly what is their CAC service (I've called and asked after reading online information but no clarity). What does this service do and why does it affect buying and selling prices ? 

[Jason Abshier]

Certified acceptance corporation AKA (CAC) they send in coins that have been graded by PCGS or NGC . They get green bean is what we call them or sometimes a rare “gold bean” . It’s for coins that are in upper limit for the grade they were assigned (they possibly grade higher or not “gold bean” green beans however may or maybe not grade out higher) they somewhat help increase selling profit margins a little 10%-30% depend on the type of coin , grade , and demands … however CAC will purchase coins off you if they have a CAC sticker . Not sure if they still do it or not but John Albanese started CAC he was a founder at PCGS and NGC I believe he was grader at one time also at NGC (but I’m not sure 100%) 

https://www.caccoin.com

[Jason Abshier]

Basically if you had say MS64 coin then you had same coin same date same grade MS64 but it looks way better than other MS64s should it sell it for same price ? It maybe possibly MS65? CAC basically points out which coins are in higher limits for that grade help open up the market for more better “eye appeal” for US coins only . 

[VKurtB]

I absolutely HATE the entire concept of CAC and I refuse to consider it even marginally legitimate. Just my opinion.

[Jason Abshier]

@VKurtB I myself don’t even own a single CAC sticker coin . I either bought it for grade say MS64 or MS64+ (+) grade or buy the next grade up MS65 I never caught on with what is all the hype about CAC is about . Again I haven’t been collecting US coinage for a long while. I see a CAC just as a secondary market some people get carried away by the CAC I know guys that’s all they collect is coins with CAC sticker from selling point it works for them oh well to each their own 

[JT2]

Why can i have PCGS just band ALL of my NGC coins like they do the GSA hoard CC's Morgans  now that is an idea....  Maybe get NGC and PCGS to see the same grade???   ...................If you ask me it is a bunch of !@#$#  wait i want MAC  then CAC it!!  maybe go with the old stand by ECC (Exceptional Cameo Contrast) This was a new on that i saw on TV!! ---- right after the EVEREST collection!  WTF  whats that all about...   you EVERYBODY send your coins to me and i will put a JT sticker on them!!!! 

On 8/16/2021 at 11:56 PM, VKurtB said:

I absolutely HATE the entire concept of CAC and I

DUDE me TOO!!!!  i think i have a couple in my collection but it wasnt becasue i HAD to have it..  I also told the guy i bought it from i am not paying for his sticker so he can forget about a premium!

On 8/17/2021 at 5:12 AM, Jason Abshier said:

 I myself don’t even own a single CAC sticker coin . I

only a couple but they came with the coin i bought

[Jason Abshier]

I don’t hate CAC coins I just don’t buy them . All it was to create a secondary market for John Albanese … PCGS and NGC came out with the (+) grade I believe before JA ever came out with CAC … I noticed the CAC stickers have saved some of the older PCGS/NGC slabbed coins from being cracked out dealers rather sell these older slabbed coins with a CAC sticker for a small premium (I can see a market there to be fair) … what I don’t get is someone has a freshly new slabbed graded coin then send it off to CAC to get a bean put on it (that don’t make much sense to me) 

they tried to do the same thing with world coins awhile back I’ve seen a few slabbed world coins with “WING” Beans on them . It looked silly but I think it was favorable among world coin collectors “CAC of world coins” it fell out of favor , not sure if they still do it or not … again I don’t even own a graded world coin with a WING bean on it here’s an example photo from Online (not my picture) 

[Numismatic, A.A.S.]

On 8/16/2021 at 11:56 PM, VKurtB said:

I absolutely HATE the entire concept of CAC and I refuse to consider it even marginally legitimate. Just my opinion.

I stopped reading further when I read you...my corroded 2 cents worth is that I have benefited from CAC. Forever in the beginning it was "well the coin is worth $$$$ and it has a CAC sticker so $$$ more..."then things changed like always. I think either way if the coins are strong high quality then it doesn't matter (just on search engines) but if you sticker Low Balls...I won't speak against, too many like it. Personally, the Better Coins in my Collection have CAC...but back to the sticker thing the price increases....Not starting a duel friend but if I placed 2 coins side by side and covered up the area of CAC Attachment Zone could you tell me which one is or isn't CAC...? that's crazy..wonder what that would mean?

[Jason Abshier]

Again we all have to remember grading is subjective based on opinions , CAC is no different . Not saying it’s garbage or anything like that I don’t hate CAC it just doesn’t all make sense to me …But ! hey if it makes money then great for you . Some collectors just don’t see the whole point of green CAC bean, I can understand a gold Bean … but green bean just an opinion saying “yeah this coins is right for the grade” . How about (+) graded coins getting a CAC sticker ? (I find it odd) . Have collectors gotten lazier just depending on CAC stickers to tell them which coin to buy ? Just like drinking the PCGS special brewed kool-aid (assuming all PCGS coins are far more superior than any other graded coin out there) 

[zadok]

everything has its pros n cons....tpgs, price lists, cac, labels, certs, toning et al....if u like it go for it if u dont then avoid it...personal choices, there is no correct or incorrect...u just need to understand the concepts to make an informed decision...the hobby is evolving as is everything else, either evolve with it or not, again personal choice...bottom line always buy the coin everything else can be a plus or a minus depending on the prevailing wind....

[Coinbuf]

Forgetting all the personal bias stuff and getting back to the OP's question.   CAC is a service run and owned by John Albanese who started NGC and was one of the initial partners that started PCGS.  He started CAC in 2007 for the purpose of identifying coins that in his opinion are in the top of (or undergraded) the grades given to coins graded by NGC and PCGS.  He wanted to identify those coins so that when they became available at auctions or private sale he would attempt to purchase those coins; hopefully at or close to wholesale prices; and then resell those coins for a profit.   The concept became a huge hit with some dealers and collectors and the end result is that now many if not most slabs that have a green CAC sticker sell for strong money, those with gold stickers (these are the coins he feels re undergraded) sell for crazy money at times.   There are many reasons for this, some buyers are not always confident in their grading skills and rely on that sticker as reassurance that the coin they buy is top quality.   Also the registries at both NGC and PCGS now include the use of CAC in some form or other and that has added to the demand for CAC approved material

Because not everyone can submit to CAC (only dealers, auction houses and some collectors) GC will review your coins and submit any that they feel have a chance of passing at CAC.  CAC charges to review each coin and there is the cost to ship, so if you ask for this service some or all of those costs are reflected in your net sales once the coins are auctioned.   The idea is that any coins you have that pass will see higher auction prices and will (or might) more than offset the costs to have the coins reviewed.

No one is required to use CAC, and as you can see from some replies there are those that are not a fan of the CAC business model.   However if you are selling and the coins are extra nice and you do not have them reviewed by CAC you run the risk that your coin might fly under the radar and underperform at auction.  Sharp buyers like to buy coins they see as better than average, send those to CAC for the sticker and resell for a nice profit that was left on the table for them.

And of course not everything benefits enough to be worth the cost, generic MS62-MS63 Morgan dollars have a very minimal price spread for CAC vs non CAC and may not benefit enough to be worth the costs.   Also CAC does not review every coin, most moderns are not, most Jefferson nickels are not, and others that I do not remember off hand.

[VKurtB]

Here’s where it gets stupid. Some people assume any coin without a sticker was refused one. NO!!!!!!!  Perhaps most of them have never been SEEN by John Albanese. I’ll tell you for certain that none that I have sent to NGC have ever been seen by John Albanese and mortality statistics would suggest he never will. 

Edited August 17, 2021 by VKurtB

[RWB]

With "CAC Service" they will come to your home, pickup your car and coins, have them thoroughly cleaned and inspected, change the oil and bodily fluids, and return it all in shiny new driveable condition. There is also the deluxe "CAC-Plus Service" where they include your family dog or cat.

[LDH Coins & Memorabilia]

On 8/17/2021 at 12:50 PM, Coinbuf said:

Forgetting all the personal bias stuff and getting back to the OP's question.   CAC is a service run and owned by John Albanese who started NGC and was one of the initial partners that started PCGS.  He started CAC in 2007 for the purpose of identifying coins that in his opinion are in the top of (or undergraded) the grades given to coins graded by NGC and PCGS.  He wanted to identify those coins so that when they became available at auctions or private sale he would attempt to purchase those coins; hopefully at or close to wholesale prices; and then resell those coins for a profit.   The concept became a huge hit with some dealers and collectors and the end result is that now many if not most slabs that have a green CAC sticker sell for strong money, those with gold stickers (these are the coins he feels re undergraded) sell for crazy money at times.   There are many reasons for this, some buyers are not always confident in their grading skills and rely on that sticker as reassurance that the coin they buy is top quality.   Also the registries at both NGC and PCGS now include the use of CAC in some form or other and that has added to the demand for CAC approved material

Because not everyone can submit to CAC (only dealers, auction houses and some collectors) GC will review your coins and submit any that they feel have a chance of passing at CAC.  CAC charges to review each coin and there is the cost to ship, so if you ask for this service some or all of those costs are reflected in your net sales once the coins are auctioned.   The idea is that any coins you have that pass will see higher auction prices and will (or might) more than offset the costs to have the coins reviewed.

No one is required to use CAC, and as you can see from some replies there are those that are not a fan of the CAC business model.   However if you are selling and the coins are extra nice and you do not have them reviewed by CAC you run the risk that your coin might fly under the radar and underperform at auction.  Sharp buyers like to buy coins they see as better than average, send those to CAC for the sticker and resell for a nice profit that was left on the table for them.

And of course not everything benefits enough to be worth the cost, generic MS62-MS63 Morgan dollars have a very minimal price spread for CAC vs non CAC and may not benefit enough to be worth the costs.   Also CAC does not review every coin, most moderns are not, most Jefferson nickels are not, and others that I do not remember off hand.

Thanx - great information - thanx to all

[gmarguli]

On 8/16/2021 at 5:12 PM, ldhall said:

What does this service do and why does it affect buying and selling prices ? 

Whether it affects pricing is very debatable. It's very hard to compare one coin to the next. Just to give an idea, I looked up sales of 81-S $ in PCGS MS65. Based on the sales, the CAC sticker adds a 30% premium or causes a 50% loss of value. Depends on the sales. 

Nicer for the grade coins have always sold for a premium, so to say a CAC sticker is pointing out a nicer for the grade coin and it causes a premium is a stretch. It's highly likely the coins would also have sold for a premium without the sticker. After all, dealers charging premiums for PQ for the grade coins has been around forever. 

[“”]

Personally,  I don’t care wether the coin is NGC or PCGS graded. I also don’t care if it is CAC as well. And I own all of these in one form or the other.

Bottom line, I purchased the COIN, not the holder.

[Numismatic, A.A.S.]

On 8/17/2021 at 12:50 PM, Coinbuf said:

No one is required to use CAC, and as you can see from some replies there are those that are not a fan of the CAC business model.   However if you are selling and the coins are extra nice and you do not have them reviewed by CAC you run the risk that your coin might fly under the radar and underperform at auction. 

And this is exactly why I am involved and Love coins...the difference between some of us is....