Should a modern ultra high relief silver piedfort coin be graded 2 2

[Walter Holmes]

This is a 2020 proof 1oz .999 fine silver UHR piedfort coin commemorating the “The Mayflower” 400th Anniversary. Issue limit 650, weight 2 Troy ounces, diameter 50mm, mint Pobjoy. Issued on behalf of the British Virgin Islands. Came in capsule with presentation box and C of A. Question: to preserve coin and maintain value should it be graded. See pics  

 

[RWB]

Why? It's preserved in the original container and you avoid the risk of contamination by not opening it. You seem to gain nothing and have to pay for that nothing.

[Crawtomatic]

Agree with RWB on this based on the question asked by OP.

If OP had asked about adding value then there's other factors to consider.  i.e., likelihood of grading PF70 and then whether or not that's the median grade or above average.

[VKurtB]

Unless you’ve had trouble maintaining coins well in original packaging, I can think of no reason to have it encapsulated. They are NOT air tight, in case you did not know.

[Walter Holmes]

On 8/3/2021 at 2:29 PM, Crawtomatic said:

Agree with RWB on this based on the question asked by OP.

If OP had asked about adding value then there's other factors to consider.  i.e., likelihood of grading PF70 and then whether or not that's the median grade or above average.

You raise an interesting question regarding value which I had not really considered. Retail price is $250 USD I acquired for half of that price. It should maintain its value - I hope. Since this is the first UHR coin I own the dimensional aspects of it had me wonder about preservation. Do you think grading would substantially increase the value. Although I do not intend on letting it go from my collection. 

I do appreciate VKurtB’s mention that slabs and not air tight; as well as RWB’ s suggestion that it is preserved in the original  container. 

[VKurtB]

On 8/4/2021 at 7:29 PM, Walter Holmes said:

You raise an interesting question regarding value which I had not really considered. Retail price is $250 USD I acquired for half of that price. It should maintain its value - I hope. Since this is the first UHR coin I own the dimensional aspects of it had me wonder about preservation. Do you think grading would substantially increase the value. Although I do not intend on letting it go from my collection. 

I do appreciate VKurtB’s mention that slabs and not air tight; as well as RWB’ s suggestion that it is preserved in the original  container. 

Yup, the slabs are tough to open and are tamper-evident, but no TPGS has ever even claimed they were gas-impervious. 

[RWB]

Buyers of this sort of novelty NCLT will not touch a piece with spots.

Each time the piece is exposed to air - even opening the original capsule - increases the chance of surface contamination which will eventually become a spot. Do what you want, it's your NCLT and your money.

[Jason Abshier]

As with modern coinage or bullion there is no hurry to get it graded , unless you plan to sell it in future and or something sit back and watch how the market takes off of you see same coin selling well in graded holders then it’s worthwhile to get it graded ,

otherwise it is fine in the original package and airtite capsule. It is true to keep it in airtite to protect it as moment that blank was made and planchet was struck on coining press it was already exposed to air and elements before it was entombed in airtite so it makes no difference but it offers the same protection as a slab would 

[Alex in PA.]

$250.00 for 2 Ounces of Silver.  Why am I not surprised?

[Jason Abshier]

On 8/5/2021 at 1:46 PM, Alex in PA. said:

$250.00 for 2 Ounces of Silver.  Why am I not surprised?

I’ve noticed Prices are all over the place for certain private and government issues silver bullion … nobody really following the true spot prices when selling low mintage silver bullion coins also see a lot folks spending a lot on certain silver modern bullion (there is a new market for it and people are buying it ) heck even the US mint doesn’t even price their silver eagle fairly (but they need to make money off the process) . I’m sure we can find the older typical stuff for close to spot price with a small premium for investment purposes. Wonder why I’m seeing preordered 2021 Morgans selling for high price ? Strange times with all the silver buying hype going on 

[Walter Holmes]

Keeping coin in original packaging sounds like the right choice to me. It also came in a  presentation box with COA. Why an NCLT? My ancestors  were traced back to Plymouth Colony, not the Mayflower specifically. I thought it would be a nice piece for future generations

[Alex in PA.]

On 8/5/2021 at 1:59 PM, Jason Abshier said:

nobody really following the true spot prices when selling low mintage silver bullion coins

You have got that right.  Spot is at $25. 25  and Pinehurst (who I buy bullion from) is asking $39.02 for a 2021 Type 2 ASE.  All others are $41.00+.  It used to be, pre-Covid, that dealers didn't have such a stretch in their asking prices.  When I bought my Silver, Decades ago, it was really cheap. 

As for buying from the U.S. Mint is just crazy when I can buy less expensive from a Dealer.

Edited August 5, 2021 by Alex in PA.
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[Jason Abshier]

@Alex in PA. silver gotten out of hand lately I actually stop buying silver this year … I over spent on silver this year a little out of hand that I won’t recoup my cost unless silver reaches over $60 an ounce , I don’t plan on selling any the silver rounds I bought were for my personal collection I don’t plan on having any graded yet …I paid the most for the proof versions with only 1,000 minted I couldn’t even get them in US market ,  I had to order them from a German dealer yeah some look at them like they are just bullion , I saw them as something I just wanted for my collection don’t have any plans to sell them 

[Alex in PA.]

On 8/5/2021 at 6:46 PM, Jason Abshier said:

I won’t recoup my cost unless silver reaches over $60 an ounce ,

I understand.  Of all the so called investments I've dabbled in Silver has been the most disappointing.  I bought 5 ounce bars, I guess in the late 70s or 80s because a 'guy told me' it would sky rocket.  So, if I sold today with Ask at 25.25 I'd be lucky if a half way honest dealer would give me $20.00 an ounce.  Now at the same time I was buying Silver I bought 1 ounce Canadian Maple Leafs and some 5 Ounce Gold ingots.  Been sitting on this stuff since I bought it. 

[Jason Abshier]

On 8/5/2021 at 4:25 PM, Walter Holmes said:

Why an NCLT?

@Walter Holmes NCLT (non-circulating-legal-tender) a lot of modern bullion today has face value on it but price of silver alone minted into the coin exceeds circulating face value therefore these coins are treated only for bullion purposes 

[Alex in PA.]

On 8/7/2021 at 9:22 AM, Jason Abshier said:

a lot of modern bullion today has face value on it but price of silver alone minted into the coin exceeds circulating face value

This is the best description I have heard in years on this Forum.  i.e American Silver Eagle (Proof) - $1.00 (Face Value) - U.S. Mint Cost:  $73.00 USD.

Edited August 7, 2021 by Alex in PA.
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[Jason Abshier]

On 8/7/2021 at 10:12 AM, Alex in PA. said:

This is the best description I have heard in years on this Forum.  i.e American Silver Eagle (Proof) - $1.00 (Face Value) - U.S. Mint Cost:  $73.00 USD.

I actually should of said “government minted bullion” has a face value denomination on it , if there isn’t a “current” denomination face value on it , it’s nothing but a silver round privately minted 

[Alex in PA.]

On 8/7/2021 at 10:39 AM, Jason Abshier said:

I actually should of said “government minted bullion”

I think, but ain't sure, there a few world wide private mints that produce silver rounds and then stamp them One Something from these small, unheard of, island nations.  Anything for a sale.  

Edited August 7, 2021 by Alex in PA.
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[VKurtB]

On 8/5/2021 at 12:46 PM, Alex in PA. said:

$250.00 for 2 Ounces of Silver.  Why am I not surprised?

Because it’s not just a 2 ounce pile of gunk off a photo lab’s silver recovery anode maybe?

[VKurtB]

On 8/5/2021 at 3:28 PM, Alex in PA. said:

You have got that right.  Spot is at $25. 25  and Pinehurst (who I buy bullion from) is asking $39.02 for a 2021 Type 2 ASE.  All others are $41.00+.  It used to be, pre-Covid, that dealers didn't have such a stretch in their asking prices.  When I bought my Silver, Decades ago, it was really cheap. 

As for buying from the U.S. Mint is just crazy when I can buy less expensive from a Dealer.

I have never yet bought any silver coin just because it is silver. That’s not what gets me interested. I buy plenty of copper, clad, plated, and even aluminum coins. I don’t expect Mint coins to be close to spot. 

[VKurtB]

On 8/5/2021 at 6:14 PM, Alex in PA. said:

I understand.  Of all the so called investments I've dabbled in Silver has been the most disappointing.  I bought 5 ounce bars, I guess in the late 70s or 80s because a 'guy told me' it would sky rocket.  So, if I sold today with Ask at 25.25 I'd be lucky if a half way honest dealer would give me $20.00 an ounce.  Now at the same time I was buying Silver I bought 1 ounce Canadian Maple Leafs and some 5 Ounce Gold ingots.  Been sitting on this stuff since I bought it. 

Then don’t be a stacker. It’s a loser’s game. 

[Alex in PA.]

On 8/7/2021 at 1:40 PM, VKurtB said:

I have never yet bought any silver coin just because it is silver

I bought them cause they was purdy.

[Jason Abshier]

@Alex in PA. this is last silver coin I bought it at $33 . I bought cause I like the design … it’s far by the “strangest” denomination I’ve seen on silver bullion $6 ! Weird denomination to put in it why not $1 or $5 . No it has to be $6 !!! This is Internet photo copy , the coin is chucked away in my silver box I didn’t feel like digging it out to take pictures as If anyone wants see pictures I’ll take them later on tomorrow 

[Walter Holmes]

I realize NCLT coins are everyone’s game. It is a billion dollar industry and offers unique, limited issue products made with various metals ( i.e. silver, gold, titanium, cupro-nickel…). Are they expected to maintain their value like ASE’s or Royal Mint products? Probably not. They are,however,  an extension of a circulated coin collection intended IMHO to bring diversification and pleasure to the individual collector.😊

[Alex in PA.]

On 8/7/2021 at 2:19 PM, Jason Abshier said:

I didn’t feel like digging it out to take pictures

That's quite okay.  That describes exactly what I meant.  I could complain to the high heavens about Bullion dealers but I've bought and if the price of Gold went lower I'd buy again.  And I'me not particular; I'll buy Coin type or Ingot type.  I have some Englehard 5 ounce bars that date back to the 70's that I believe (don't remember exactly) cost me about $14.00 per ounce.  But Gold Bullion is my passion.  Coins, bars, nuggets whatever I'm a sucker for it.  Would love to see Gold, ah and Silver, go way down so I could buy again.

Unless we hold on to our Bullion until such times as there's a real jump in the market we will never get the dealers to pay us a good price.  Seems they all want to become millionaires.  Well, what about us?  Can't we "wet our beaks" a little too?  

PS:  Chek out the Coin Marketplace.

Edited August 7, 2021 by Alex in PA.

[Jason Abshier]

On 8/7/2021 at 2:30 PM, Walter Holmes said:

Are they expected to maintain their value like ASE’s or Royal Mint products?

I see it this way the value of ASE or royal mint products is equal to same as 1oz silver private round to begin with a lot of other people feel that way as well when it comes to modern silver today … When you take it dealer they don’t care where it came from if it’s 1oz silver it’s 1 oz silver to them they will pay accordingly to that they don’t care … However the market does have some interesting “graded” bullion that does sell among the newer collectors at prices way above melt price , I myself collect some modern silver coinage because I like the design on the coin sometimes we all get tired of looking at older classic coinage we take a step out to buy something a little newer to look at . But you’ll never ever see me paying hundreds or thousand dollars for MS70 bullion coin I don’t need waste money that bad to build a registry set to gain some bragging rights “look at me ! Oooga booga” I’m master collector I have all 70’s  but to each their own take that what is driving the market up when it comes to ASE or how about the new Morgan dollars ? Another thing to watch out paying very high prices for silver coins is spotting issues that’s a killer like RWB said gets some spots on it nobody will want it . Spotting is beyond control sometimes 

 

[Alex in PA.]

On 8/7/2021 at 3:34 PM, Jason Abshier said:

I see it this way the value of ASE or royal mint products is equal to same as 1oz silver private round to begin with

Exactly.  Maybe Walter will tell us which a dealer will pay more for;  1 Ounce American Silver Eagle or an Englehard 1 Ounce Silver Round?  The dealer treats them both the same.    A dealer pays the lowest possible price he/she can buy at and sells at the highest possible price.  

[Walter Holmes]

On 8/7/2021 at 3:49 PM, Alex in PA. said:

Exactly.  Maybe Walter will tell us which a dealer will pay more for;  1 Ounce American Silver Eagle or an Englehard 1 Ounce Silver Round?  The dealer treats them both the same.    A dealer pays the lowest possible price he/she can buy at and sells at the highest possible price.  

This will be my pleasure. I only purchase bullion coins from Fidelitrade a bullion investment firm. They provide a bid/ask price for each product. Their bid price is generally higher than spot which would reflect a slight premium. You can check them out at www.Fidelitrade.com. And open an account with them. They are not associated with Fidelity Investments. Here’s a screen shot of some of there prices and silver products. Prices change as spot price changes. 

The coin posted is an Ultra High Relief Proof Piedfort coin it was not sold as, nor intended to be sold as bullion. I only provide the above as an explanation of where to purchase bullion as an investor whether purchasing bullion coins in tubes, or bars. I am not a stacker, but will upon occasion invest in bullion if the daily and weekly quants suggest a buy signal.  
 

I am a traditional circulated coin collector. Once again, I will upon occasion invest in a modern coin that I find eye appealing and has piqued my interest regardless of the metal content.  I also own coins made from cupronickel, titanium, sterling silver and platinum. Hope this answers your question.

Edited August 8, 2021 by Walter Holmes

[Henri Charriere]

On 8/7/2021 at 10:12 AM, Alex in PA. said:

This is the best description I have heard in years on this Forum.  i.e American Silver Eagle (Proof) - $1.00 (Face Value) - U.S. Mint Cost:  $73.00 USD.

Truth be told, Mint, to me, is just another four-letter word.